In the second part of this interview, Cemil Bayik, co-chair of the KCK Executive Council, spoke about the failure of the international institutions to put pressure on Turkey to end the violation of all international laws in Imrali.

The first part of this interview can be read here.

Considering Devlet Bahceli’s latest statements, the subsequent bans on visits, and the manipulations in the media and the political arena, what are the fascist government’s calculations against Öcalan? How should the resistance and stance developed by Öcalan under the severe isolation and the message given by him during the visit of DEM MP Ömer Öcalan be understood, and what conclusions should be drawn from this?

Facing the Imrali system, we are expected to compromise our stance and give up our principles. This is the sole expectation of the state and the government for Rêber Apo [Abdullah Öcalan] to change his attitude. There is heavy pressure and isolation on Rêber Apo, which is unprecedented in history. This is the most severe torture. In this way, the genocidal colonialist mentality is, on the one hand, trying to prevent Rêber Apo’s ideas from reaching outside and giving us strength and, on the other hand, trying to take revenge on Rêber Apo. Beyond satisfying their feelings of revenge, the state cannot achieve any results with such methods. They are very well aware of this themselves. Rêber Apo’s stance and his commitment to freedom are obvious. Without this, there would have been neither the Imrali system nor the practice of isolation.

Therefore, it is necessary to understand the reality of Rêber Apo and Imrali well. Some people misjudge and reach the wrong conclusions. They think that Rêber Apo can take steps that are not in the interest of freedom and the peoples. Rêber Apo would never take a step that is not in the interest of the Kurdish people or the other peoples of Turkey and the Middle East. Rêber Apo’s half-century-long march has sufficiently proved this fact. There was no step that had not been for the benefit of freedom and the peoples. The 26-year Imrali period is also like this. Therefore, it is important that especially Turkish intellectuals, socialists, democrats, and patriots inform those who are hesitant and who do not know about this reality sufficiently. Undoubtedly, there are also those who are consciously misleading. These are chauvinist circles. They are trying to push forward nationalism, racism, and fascism with the AKP-MHP. One cannot talk with these circles; one can only fight them. Chauvinism is still very strong in Turkey. Therefore, the anti-chauvinist struggle remains important.

In his meeting with the DEM MP Ömer Öcalan, Rêber Apo clearly revealed both the current situation and his approach. It is important to understand why he said that the isolation continues even though the meeting took place. If Rêber Apo says this despite the meeting and despite the messages of many state officials, including Devlet Bahceli, it means that there is no intention of a solution, but rather a political operation by the state. As a matter of fact, the statements and approaches of both Devlet Bahceli and other state officials are highly manipulative. A perception is created as if something positive is going to be done, but the reality is quite the opposite. It is said that there is no Kurdish question and that the PKK is the enemy. This approach shows that the century-old policy of denial and annihilation is being continued. A special war-oriented process is being carried out. This is the meaning of Rêber Apo’s statement that isolation continues. There is intense manipulation in the media as well as in politics. The media in Turkey has always functioned to make society accept the political strategies developed by the state on the basis of the genocide concept. Any press and media publishing beyond this is banned. Therefore, it is possible to understand the approach of the state and the government by looking at the state media.

Regardless of its intentions, the Turkish state had to go to Rêber Apo’s feet and accept his interlocutor status. This is also related to the developments outside. The developments in the Middle East are worrying the Turkish state. While the Middle East is being redesigned, its structure, which is based on the nation-state system, is being overcome. This alarms the Turkish state, whose system in the Middle East is mostly based on the nation-state model. Because the Turkish state sees that this trend will touch it, it cannot protect its monist nation-state structure. Because it sees this, it opposes it with all its might and tries to prevent it. However, the main reason that forces the AKP-MHP government to go to the feet of Rêber Apo and accept him as interlocutor is the existence of the Kurdistan freedom struggle. While the Middle East is being redesigned and the nation-state structure is being overcome, the existence of our movement and the growing struggle led by our movement is the main reason that worries the genocidal colonialist Turkish state. If it were not for our movement and the struggle that developed under the leadership of our movement, the Turkish state and the AKP-MHP government would not be so worried about the developments in the Middle East; so to speak, they would be firmly entrenched.

As a matter of fact, the AKP-MHP government has worked towards one thing in particular since its inception; the liquidation of our movement and the completion of the Kurdish genocide. It was aimed to liquidate our movement before entering the second century of the republic at the latest and thus remove the obstacle before the Kurdish genocide. However, the AKP-MHP government failed to achieve this and could not liquidate our movement. It can be said that the struggle led by our movement in 2024 caused great disappointment to the government. The resistance of the guerrillas could not be broken, the Kurdish people could not be subjugated, and ultimately the liquidation concept remained inconclusive.

However, the Turkish state and the AKP-MHP government have not given up their genocidal mentality and policies. As of the end of 2023 and into 2024, as a result of the political and military struggle developed by our movement and our people, it suffered great blows; is liquidation and genocide concepts remained inconclusive, but it continued to insist on its mentality and policies. Today, as it did yesterday, it is working for the liquidation of our movement and the genocide of our people. With the new situation that has emerged in Syria, the fact that it has turned towards Rojava with the SNA gangs affiliated to it and its invasion and genocide plans for Rojava, which it does not care to hide, reveals the truth with all its clarity.

Over the past year, the Committee for the Prevention of Torture (CPT) and the European Commission, executive bodies of the Council of Europe (CoE), made statements regarding the isolation imposed on Rêber Apo. Again, the reports emphasized the so-called ‘Right to Hope’. How do you evaluate these statements and the attitude of the relevant international institutions?

Rêber Apo was abducted as part of an international conspiracy and handed over to the Turkish state. The fact that he was subjected to an international conspiracy was the result of an international plan against him, our movement, and our people. In the most general sense, this plan is to take into account the wishes of the Turkish state when the Middle East is being redesigned and therefore not to include the Kurds in the new Middle East design. While, on the one hand, this was the demand and imposition of the Turkish state, on the other hand, the capitalist modernist powers, especially the USA, Israel, and the UK, saw the PKK’s democratic, freedom-striving approach as dangerous for themselves. The clash of these two understandings has resulted in the development of such a plan against Rêber Apo, our movement, and our people. The Imrali system was created within the scope of this plan; it is managed by international powers. Rêber Apo compared Imrali to Guantanamo. As it is known, no national or international law was in force in Guantanamo. It was a purely political place. Imrali is exactly the same. There is no national or international law. In fact, the international conspiracy has been realized by completely bypassing the law. Therefore, all institutions related to the Imrali system do not exist to regulate the law but to cover up and maintain the state of lawlessness. The CPT and other European institutions are at the forefront of these institutions. Rêber Apo stated that when he was first taken to Imrali, he was met by a CPT delegation. This is the clearest evidence that the Imrali system is managed by the CPT and European institutions. The fact that no official institution has reacted to the absolute isolation of Rêber Apo for five years can only be explained by this.

Just as in the realization of the international conspiracy, European law and regulations have been violated with regard to the practices in Imrali. The forces involved in the international conspiracy have clearly violated their own laws and jurisprudence. The same accounts for the CPT, the CoE, the Committee of Ministers, and the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR). Despite the fact that the law has been completely bypassed in Imrali, torture has been practiced in absolute isolation, and crimes against humanity have been committed; none of these institutions have taken a stance against their responsibility. To mention the simplest, the CPT has not even announced the results of its visits to Imrali. It is very clear that this is an approach not to put the Turkish state in difficulty. However, the CPT has previously stated that there is isolation in Imrali, that isolation is torture and cannot be accepted, and that Imrali Island is not suitable to be a prison. However, the same CPT has not only failed to implement the taken decisions, but has also taken a position that tries to legitimize the practices in Imrali. Similar approaches apply to other European institutions. The ECHR ruled that Rêber Apo was not given a fair trial, but the Turkish state acted as if nothing had happened and simply carried on. Again in 2014, it stated that Rêber Apo should benefit from the ‘Right to Hope’, but it has done nothing despite the ten years that have since passed. The CoE, which should have taken action in the face of all this and taken decisions against the Turkish state, has also done nothing and has not taken any stance to force the Turkish state to take one single step. The Turkish state has taken courage from all this. It developed all the practices in Imrali, including the absolute isolation, with the courage it took from this.

The most recent decision of the Committee of Ministers on the ‘Right to Hope’ was important. It is very clear that this decision of the Committee of Ministers was the result of the impact and pressure created by the global freedom campaign. Otherwise, it was a decision that should have been taken long ago. But, as we have pointed out through a written statement, it is both a decision taken too late and giving the Turkish state a deadline is not acceptable. In fact, despite the ECHR’s decision, the Turkish state has not taken any steps on this basis for 10 years. Let alone taking steps, it has established a complete death system in Imrali. While the situation is so clear, it is completely unacceptable for the Committee of Ministers to once again give Turkey a deadline. If a shred of law is to be practiced, the Turkish state must be forced to end the crime against humanity, lawlessness, absolute isolation, and torture in Imrali and release Rêber Apo to his physical freedom as soon as possible.