In the third and last part of this in-depth interview, Besê Hozat, co-chair of the KCK (Kurdistan Communities Union) Executive Council, goes into great detail about current developments in the context of the Third World War and analyzes the interests of the hegemonic forces of capitalist modernity, with a special focus on Turkey and Iran.

The first part can be read here and the second here.

The Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan, spoke of and assessed the Third World War many years ago. Today we see that this war has found a focal point in Israel, which is currently attacking Lebanon. Attempts to involve Iran more in this war are also recognizable. Also, America is closely involved in the war through its agreements with Israel and close cooperation. How do you assess the current developments in the context of the Third World War?

The Third World War is currently taking place in the region with all its intensity. The war is deepening and spreading. Israel’s attack on Lebanon and its attack on Gaza should not be evaluated as limited to Gaza and Lebanon. Turkey’s attack on the Kurds and its genocidal attack should also not be evaluated as limited to Kurds and Kurdistan. It affects the whole region. This war is a World War. And this World War is currently intensified and deepened in the Middle East. There are great powers behind Israel, particularly America, Britain, and most of Europe. In fact, a concept, a strategy, is being implemented. Israel is the practical implementation force, the striking force of this strategy, and Iran is the target of these attacks. In this way, Israel is gradually increasing its influence and power in the region with the support of the West. And the region is gradually being reshaped and redesigned on the basis of the interests of these hegemonic powers and Israel.

Hezbollah has really suffered a heavy blow that was almost fatal. Of course, it is difficult for it to be completely liquidated; it has serious roots in society. But it is also very clear that it has suffered a heavy blow. The blow to Hezbollah is a blow to Iran. At the same time, Hamas has indeed suffered a fatal blow. Hamas’s blow is both a blow to Turkey and Iran. This is clear.

Turkey is behind the October 7 Hamas attack. It played a major role in the development of such an attack on the basis of sabotaging the energy road project from India to the Eastern Mediterranean, Cyprus, and Europe. Other forces also played a role. It is not that they did not play a role, but Turkey played the most decisive role. Afterward, it wanted to be involved in the process and equation through Hamas. It did everything to try to broker a ceasefire. None of the attempts yielded any results.

Currently, Iran is being targeted, but at the same time, Turkey’s policy in the region, its foreign, domestic, and regional policy has suffered a huge blow. Turkey has always pursued a policy of balance between Russia and America, between Europe and Asia. It has used this for years. It used it in the Ukraine conflict; it wanted to use it in the Gaza-Israel war. Every time there was a crisis, it wanted to use this policy of balance. It used it This war is all about controlling the energy routes, controlling energy resources, and redesigning the region. It is the 21st century’s war to re-establish and re-organize the political balances, economic balances, and political system. In this war, Turkey has been wounded, and Iran as well is seriously weakening. The situation in Syria and Iraq is already obvious. With the support of America, Britain, and the West, Israel is gradually increasing its influence and strength. A situation of designing the region on the Israeli axis is gradually emerging. All this has put the AKP-MHP fascism in a very serious predicament and put it in a great panic. Where will this war evolve? Where will it spread to? This war will continue to intensify. Until the US elections, maybe they will continue it in this dosage for a while. But after the US elections, the situation and level of this war will become clearer. But one can already predict that it will intensify and deepen. It seems that the capitalist, imperialist, and Western hegemonic powers will not leave the region in this form. They will gradually intensify these attacks on Iran. They will force the Iranian regime to surrender. They will force an agreement, a compromise based entirely on their own interests. In the absence of this, they will intensify these attacks and war even more. And they will try to bring this policy, their strategy, to a conclusion.

This war is all about controlling the energy routes, controlling energy resources and redesigning the region. It is the 21st century’s war to re-establish and re-organize the political balances, economic balances and political system. In this war, Turkey has been wounded and Iran as well is seriously weakening. The situation in Syria and Iraq is already obvious. With the support of America, Britain and the West, Israel is gradually increasing its influence and strength. A situation of designing the region on the Israeli axis is gradually emerging. All this has put the AKP-MHP fascism in a very serious predicament and put it in a great panic. Where will this war evolve? Where will it spread to? This war will continue to intensify. Until the US elections, maybe they will continue it in this dosage for a while. But after the US elections, the situation and level of this war will become clearer. But one can already predict, that it will intensify and deepen. It seems that the capitalist, imperialist, Western hegemonic powers will not leave the region in this form. They will gradually intensify these attacks on Iran. They will force the Iranian regime to surrender. They will force an agreement, a compromise based entirely on their own interests. In the absence of this, they will intensify these attacks and war even more. And they will try to bring this policy, their strategy, to a conclusion.

Something alike is also being carried out against Turkey. Turkey is a NATO country. Of course, there is no such thing as Israel attacking Turkey as Erdogan claims. This is all part of their special warfare. It is the tactical politics of designing the opposition, designing Turkey’s internal politics. There is no such thing as Israel attacking Turkey. All Turkey fears is the Kurds. It is conducting a policy of genocide against the Kurds. It does not want this genocide policy to weaken. It does not want these genocidal attacks and war to be sabotaged. It wants to bring this war of genocide to a conclusion without any obstacles or problems. It does not want the Kurds to benefit from this deepening crisis and chaos in the Middle East from this war environment. In order to prevent such a situation, it has been in a panic attack inside and outside.

Of course, this war will have repercussions in Syria. The attacks have already intensified. It is clear that very serious attacks will further be launched against Hezbollah in Syria. They are already underway. The Syrian regime will also be affected by this. This raises several questions. Will the Syrian regime pursue a policy on the axis of America, Israel, and the West? Will it pursue a policy of compromise and agreement with Turkey? Or will it see it in its own interest to compromise and reconcile with the Kurds and seek to solve its internal problems democratically on the basis of democratizing Syria and solving the Kurdish question democratically? This would be the most correct way. It is this option that will win Syria.

In the same way, this war will also have an intense impact on Iraq. These attacks already started a long time ago, and they intensified throughout the last year. Particularly the attacks on Hashd al-Shaabi are very intense. The attacks directly target Iran through them. They want to break Iran’s influence in Iraq with these attacks. In the same way that America is trying to re-establish a Sunni-Shiite balance in Iraq, Turkey is also working very hard, trying to organize Sunnis loyal to it and set them into action. They are trying to make the groups under their control and under their own guidance effective. They are trying to completely break the Iranian influence. Of course, Iran will not stand still either. Obviously, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, and Yemen are also important for Iran. Iran is also a serious power that pursues a hegemonic policy in the region in order to maintain its influence and power in the region. It is one of the hegemonic powers of the region. It will not remain silent or surrender to this. It will try to protect its power and presence and increase its influence everywhere. Therefore, it will take a more active part in this war. This will gradually deepen the chaos in Iran. It really seems that Iran will either make a deal by making many concessions, which is not a solution. Iran will not see this as a gain for itself – or it will wage a very violent war at any cost. It is debatable where this will lead Iran. There are also many fundamental historical problems in Iran. As the last option, it will turn to a solution, an option based on solving these problems on a democratic basis, democratizing Iran, and taking democratic politics as a basis. This would obviously be the right thing to do. This is the option that will really protect and strengthen Iran.

No matter how we look at it, this is the same for Iraq and Turkey. The more Turkey gets involved in this war, the more it will sink and collapse. Kurdish hostility will finish Turkey. Kurdish genocide policies will finish Turkey; they will bring Turkey to its end. We call on Turkey again; give up on this. This will not gain you anything. This will solely destroy you. Make a deal with the Kurds, reconcile with the Kurds, and negotiate with the Kurds. Recognize Kurdish rights, recognize their freedoms, recognize their language, recognize their culture, and recognize their political rights. The only thing that will save Turkey is a democratic solution in Kurdistan and the democratization of Turkey. This will save Turkey.

Ultimately, we are coming to the solution of Rêber Apo [Abdullah Öcalan]. As long as the powers in the region insist on war, as long as they insist on Kurdish hostility, on the policy of violence, they will not get any results. Indeed, this means destruction. But as they move towards a democratic solution and peace, this will be a win for everyone. It will benefit the region. Of course, it will benefit the peoples the most. This is a fact.

The region is really going through a very dangerous process. This war will spread. It will affect everyone. In this sense, Rêer Apo’s solution project of democratic nation and democratic confederal system is the only reasonable solution project. This is the case for the Kurdish people, the peoples of the region, and the states of the region. Otherwise, the region will turn into a bloodbath. It will experience great destruction. This will be a loss for everyone.

In this ongoing chaos, the Turkish state is trying to adjust its own policy. On the one hand, it always says that Israel has its eye on Turkey and Israel is treated with hostility, while on the other hand, trade relations between the two states continue unabated and there is still collaboration on a military level. They try to conceal this domestically and try to adapt their language accordingly. What are the true intentions of the connection between Erdogan, Bahceli, and Ergenekon within the current chaos?

In recent days, in the Turkish media, the agenda is constantly being heated that Israel has its eyes on Turkey. There were statements by Erdogan and then by Devlet Bahceli. Devlet Bahçeli even suggested something he called ‘Jerusalem Alliance’. He said that he wants to unite all Muslim countries against Israel in a ‘Jerusalem Alliance.’.

On the 8th, the Grand National Assembly of Turkey will convene. They will discuss the Israeli agenda. It is necessary to gain a good understanding of their true intentions. Israel is not going to attack Turkey. Turkey’s relations with Israel are not bad. All of Erdogan’s words are all demagoguery. Turkey did not cut its relations with Israel in any way. Trade and exports continued. It sold all kinds of goods to Israel. At the moment, there is great support from Turkey in the war being waged in Gaza, in the West Bank, and in Lebanon. This is a fact. In that sense, Netanyahu and Erdogan are soul mates. There is no difference between them. Just as Netanyahu is a Hitler, Erdogan is a Hitler as well. Erdogan has even surpassed Hitler. He is not at all what they say he is. What is Turkey’s fear? It is not a matter of Israel attacking Turkey. They are afraid that Kurds could benefit from this war environment and that the Kurds could make more gains. They are afraid that the genocide policies they have been conducting would be thrown away. This is the whole fear and panic. They fear that Kurds in Syria can benefit from this war and that Kurds in Iraq can benefit. That is what Bahceli’s Jerusalem Alliance means. They want to take Syria, Iraq, and Iran with them and form an anti-Kurdish alliance to go against the Kurds and complete the genocide. It is pursuing this policy in order to get the support of the Syrian regime, Iran, and Iraq in the attack on Northern Syria, Rojava.

They are developing such a discourse in order to gain support for their annexation-occupation policies in southern Kurdistan. Otherwise, Erdogan does not care about the Arab people. He sacrificed them. As I pointed out before, Erdogan is behind the October 7 Hamas attack. The intention was to sabotage the energy deal and then to get himself into the equation, but it didn’t work. Now they are setting up such a game. They are trying to develop something like this by gaining the sympathy of Iran, the Arabs, the peoples of the region, and the support of the Arab states under the pretext of the Israeli attacks. But no one will buy it. It is already clear that some Arab countries are not against Israel’s attacks. For example, the Abrahams agreements that Israel made with the support of the US are in force. Saudi Arabia and the Gulf countries are silent. Egypt is silent. Obviously they also support.

But now the eyes of the Kurdish people have been opened. The eyes of the peoples of the region have also been opened. The states of the region are also more or less aware of what is going on now. It is Turkey that has brought Syria to this state. It is Turkey that has caused such great destruction. It organized tens of thousands of gangs and mercenaries against the regime in Syria. It is also Turkey that has turned Iraq into this situation. What is it doing now? They are trying to design the opposition inside. The other day Bahceli shook hands and greeted the DEM Party leadership in the parliament. He had a dialog with the CHP and Ozgur Ozel; it was a hot topic in the press. He gives warm messages to all of them. He says that he wants to strengthen the internal front. Under the name of strengthening the internal front, the AKP-MHP regime is trying to redesign the opposition as a whole on the basis of their own interests and policies, in the name of Turkey’s survival and national interests, within the framework of the words that Israel will attack Turkey. They are trying to leave no opposition. They are trying to completely liquidate and neutralize it. They are setting up such a new game. After Devlet Bahceli shook hands with the DEM Party, the press asked him why he did so. He said, “While we want peace outside, of course we need peace inside. MHP is a party of Turkey. Other parties cannot take such a step without the MHP taking such a step.” He made various statements like this. If that is the case, then we would like to say something to Bahceli. He talks about internal peace. Then he should take Erdogan and Ozgur Ozel and go to Imrali with them. They should sit down with Rêber Apo. They should talk about the Kurdish question together, negotiate, and work out a joint democratic solution.

Devlet Bahceli is the main actor of the AKP-MHP fascist regime. At the moment, Turkey is ruled by Devlet Bahceli’s mentality. Let Devlet Bahceli ask for a solution; no one can say anything against it. Let him take Erdogan and Ozgur Ozel and go to Imrali. Will he go? He won’t. Because they are after a new game. They are not interested in making peace with the Kurds, coming to an agreement, or recognizing their rights. They don’t want to solve the Kurdish question, nor do they want to democratize Turkey. This is not their concern. It is Rêber Apo’s entire concern and effort to find a democratic solution to the Kurdish question and the democratization of Turkey. The PKK’s entire effort is the democratic solution of the Kurdish question and the democratization of Turkey. But the fascist AKP-MHP regime is weaving a new game, a new trick, a new conspiracy. In order to carry out these genocide policies, they are trying to completely neutralize the opposition inside, create confusion among the Kurds, if they have various unnecessary and unwarranted expectations, they are trying to put such individuals, to leave the Kurds without struggle, to passivate them, to break their will to struggle and resistance, to put them in expectation, to put democratic politics in expectation, to break its influence and activity; if they can, to carry out an operation inside, if they can, to create a disintegration within the DEM Party and within democratic politics. They try to find individuals who are sympathetic to them, who listen to them, try to confuse them further, and gain influence over the Kurds and the CHP through them. All with the aim of forcing the CHP completely under their service, completely weakening the opposition force, and implementing their genocidal policies. This is their reality. This is the game they are playing and the reason why Bahceli shook hands with the DEM party.

If Devlet Bahçeli, AKP, and Erdogan really had such a positive intention and approach as they claim, then fine, Imrali is there. It is under your control; you have established the system of torture and isolation yourself; you are practicing absolute isolation. There has been no news from Rêber Apo for years. Now, if Devlet Bahceli wanted to, he could end the isolation there within an hour.

A very dirty, very insidious policy is being carried out. It aims to completely disable the opposition and neutralize the Kurdish people while carrying out the Kurdish genocide.

The CHP’s policy so far serves the current foreign and domestic policies of the AKP-MHP regime. It is almost as if it is carrying out a policy that plays into the hands of the AKP-MHP regime, that is, a crutch that continues its past role and mission. In other words, there is no serious opposition. This is what all the CHP’s messages mean. Again, it is obvious that they are trying to pull the CHP along for the sake of the survival of this government. In its current form, the CHP is open to this. Until now, the CHP has not uttered a single word against the isolation. A terrible lawlessness is being practiced there. An immoral and inhuman politics is being practiced that renders meaningless the so-called law in Turkey. It creates terrible decay. The main source of this decay, the development of the gangs, mafia, prostitution, all kinds of pollution, ugliness, child murder, and evil in politics and society in Turkey is these Kurdish genocide policies, torture, and imprisonment policies. They have been doing this for years, for more than a century. They themselves organize these gangs for this purpose. The CHP does not have a single policy against isolation, against war. It does not have a single serious policy, a single word for peace, for the solution of the Kurdish question. The rhetoric of ‘normalization’ is going on and on. ‘Normalization’ has also turned into service to the AKP-MHP fascist government and its policies. If there is to be normalization, first and foremost the torture-isolation system in Imrali must be abolished. If there is to be normalization, Devlet Bahceli, Erdogan, and Ozgur Ozel must go to Imrali and sit down with Rêber Apo. True normalization starts from Imrali.

A total special warfare is being waged. The Kurdish people, the peoples and society of Turkey and democratic public opinion are being deceived. There is a terrible special warfare. And the opposition is following a policy that feeds this special warfare. We need to be very vigilant about this.

Finally, I would like to talk about the elections in southern Kurdistan, which are scheduled for October 20. What can you tell us about the elections and the circumstances surrounding them?

There is not much that I currently want to express in this direction. The elections in southern Kurdistan are taking place in the midst of a big war. There is an annexation-occupation attack taking place against southern Kurdistan. Both the southern Kurdistan administration and the KDP are completely involved in this war. In such an environment, these elections are being held.

Our people see who is a betrayer, collaborator, or agent, how they harm the Kurdish people, and how they carry out a dirty interest policy. They also know who is patriotic. They see and know that they think about the interests, honor, and values of the people, that they struggle for this, that they live for this, and that they do politics. There is no need for us to express this. Our people are aware of these. It is already said that this election did not create much excitement in southern Kurdistan. What excitement will there be in a place where there are occupation-annexation attacks, where this administration, the KDP, and the Barzani family clan are involved in these occupation and genocide attacks? Of course they cannot create anything in the people. In this sense, I can only say this. If such an election is possible, of course our people should vote for patriotic candidates. Our people should go and vote for candidates who defend the honor of this people, the national values of this people, who fight for this, who conduct politics. They should also bury the collaborator, betrayer, and agent network in these ballot boxes. This is important. Our people in southern Kurdistan must show the strongest attitude against the collaborator-traitor line in these elections.