In the second part of an in-depth interview, Besê Hozat, co-chair of the KCK (Kurdistan Communities Union) Executive Council, spoke about the usurpation of the people's will in Turkey and North Kurdistan as well as about the spreading and development of the ecological movement.

The Turkish state continues to sabotage democratic politics in northern Kurdistan and Turkey by appointing trustees to the positions of lawfully elected members of the DEM Party. There has also been a very powerful opposition against this. How do you evaluate the situation?

I celebrate the stance of our people in the rallies held in Colemerg (tr. Hakkari) and Mersin on the 13th and 14th of this month. Since the appointment of a trustee in Colemerg, our people have been in a position of great resistance everywhere. Especially in Colemerg, there is uninterrupted resistance and struggle. This must continue until results are achieved. This resistance is, of course, not limited to Colemerg. There is a reaction everywhere. It would be incorrect to claim the opposite, but this reaction is insufficient. This attack is not only aimed at Colemerg but also at the Kurdish people as a whole. This is a policy of genocide. The trustee policy should be evaluated in this way.

The trustee policy is part of genocide policies, Kurdish denial, and annihilation policies. The Turkish state does not want the Kurds to have a will anywhere. It does not want the Kurds to govern themselves. What is self-governance? It means to have self-power and to give meaning to your existence. It is a very important level of development in order to ensure existence and freedom. A people that cannot govern itself is doomed to slavery. This is a fact. For hundreds of years, maybe even for thousands of years, the Kurdish people have been enslaved because they have not been able to establish their own self-government because they have not been able to govern themselves. We say Kurdistan is a colony. This is evaluated a lot; they say that the trustee policy is a colonial law, an enemy law. That is correct, but Kurdistan is not just a classical colony. Rêber Apo said that Kurdistan is the colony of a colony. It is not a classical colonial law or policy applied in Kurdistan. A genocidal colonialist policy is being implemented in Kurdistan. In other words, there is colonialism based on genocide. The Turkish state has occupied and colonized, but it has been systematically practicing genocide in the country it colonized for a hundred years. Cultural genocide, physical genocide, economic genocide, and ecological genocide. In other words, there is a multi-dimensional, multi-faceted genocide in Kurdistan. Therefore, Kurdistan has been turned into a colony of genocide. The slavery of the Kurds is very multidimensional. Self-government gains a great deal of meaning and value at this point. The people who govern themselves gain existence and meaning from their existence. The self-confidence and courage of the people who govern themselves develop. Therefore, society becomes free and gains the power to defend itself. This is liberation.

The Turkish state and the current genocidal, colonialist AKP-MHP regime searches to prevent this. That is why it has been appointing trustees to Kurdistan for three terms in a row (in 2016, 2019, and 2024). When Batman municipality was won by the Kurds, Edip Solmaz was murdered. In the following periods, there were one or two municipalities that were won, all of them were intervened, and the people were dismissed, arrested and tortured. Moreover, municipalities in Turkey do not have much authority. They are all managed from Ankara. There is a very strict centralist system. The Turkish nation state system is a fascist system.

Nevertheless, municipalities provide certain services to the people. It is the house of the people, where people take their problems. They provide convenience, they open some institutions, and at least they can prevent cultural assimilation. They can open cultural institutions. Through them, the genocide of women can be prevented to a certain point. They open women’s institutions, and especially in Kurdistan, there is a system based on equal representation in order to prevent policies of oppression against women. Ecological sensitivity can be developed through them. They carry out some preventive work in terms of migration. In terms of the economy, they provide some services to the people and open areas of service and business. All things that the general state doesn’t want to happen. It wants the Kurdish people to be permanently hungry, poor, helpless, without solutions, permanently beggars, permanently dependent on the state, permanently slaves of the state, serving only the state. It doesn’t want the people to gain consciousness, to gain will, to organize, to govern themselves, or to defend themselves. It is afraid of this. The state is used to ruling Kurds as slaves. In fact, they see this as a necessity for the survival of the Turkish rulers. The trustee policy should definitely be seen in this context. It is part of genocide policies. It is a pillar of political genocide.

Now they are trying to create a perception. They say the DEM Party could have nominated someone with legal problems. Why is this not taken into consideration? They are trying to legitimize and naturalize this attack. Is there really anyone left in Kurdistan who has not been investigated, imprisoned, tortured, oppressed, or terrorized? The AKP-MHP regime sees all Kurds as terrorists and enemies. Even if you bring in the cleanest person, the Turkish state will find a crime to frame on them because the Turkish regime is an anti-Kurdish regime, an anti-Kurdish state. Such special war games should not be accepted. Moreover, it is not only Colemerg that is being discussed now. The people did not accept what was done there. They never should. They should definitely continue the resistance in all cities until they take their municipality back. In all northern Kurdish cities, towns, villages, and metropolises, everywhere. The Kurdish people, the democratic forces, and all those in favor of law, justice, and democracy must react to this. They must stand up and not tolerate this. Obviously, this policy is not limited to Colemerg.

Now they have targeted the municipalities of Amed, Wan, and Siirt. Actually, all municipalities are currently targets. Once it establishes the necessary conditions, it intends to seize each municipality individually. There is such a plan. What should be done to prevent this? The current Colemerg-centered resistance needs to be spread everywhere. Everyone should rise like the people in Colemerg. Amed must stand up and develop uninterrupted resistance. So should Wan, so should Batman, so should Mardin, and all the cities of Kurdistan, the metropolises of Turkey. The millions of Kurds and the democratic forces must put up an uninterrupted resistance and struggle. A really strong response must be given against these genocide policies.

There is resistance; we celebrate and salute it, but it is limited. It needs to gain momentum and character. This is important. The struggle against the AKP-MHP fascist regime, the guerrilla struggle, the struggle of our people, and the freedom campaign have really defeated the AKP-MHP fascist regime. It was defeated in the face of this resistance. It is currently experiencing very serious problems within itself. The AKP-MHP regime is currently in a very serious crisis. They are trying to cover it up and patch it up. But it is a very serious conflict. In other words, the fate of the MHP depends on the AKP, and the fate of the AKP depends on the MHP. That is why they cannot break away from each other. They are intertwined within themselves. Our struggle, the struggle of the democratic forces of Turkey, and the glorious resistance and stance of Rêber Apo in Imrali, the resistance that developed around him, defeated the AKP-MHP fascist regime. They were defeated by this resistance. Now they are experiencing a serious dilemma internally. The MHP-AKP alliance has already ended the AKP, turning the AKP into an extension of the MHP. And now the AKP has no credibility or legitimacy in the eyes of society. It has actually fallen from power. It has come to this situation. This alliance has brought the AKP to this state. Now there are AKP supporters who are disturbed by this. “Enough,” they say. They say, “If we carry on this alliance with the MHP any longer, we will become a subordinate party; we will not be able to show any presence,” but they cannot break away. Even if they do, they will become a subordinate party.

Now the AKP is pursuing a tactic like this: it is trying to open space for itself by creating alliances to create legitimacy in society and with the opposition. It is trying to regain its base by doing so. In this, it is also trying to gradually reorganize its relations with the MHP. At the current stage, the AKP is trying to do this without disturbing the MHP and without severing relations because this could lead to very big disasters. The AKP is afraid of this too. The AKP is conducting this, especially through the CHP, trying to design the CHP according to their own interests to make it incapable of opposition. What the AKP means by “softening” and “normalization” is softening the CHP. The CHP did not have a radical opposition anyway. Nevertheless, it came out as the first party in the local elections. So, the AKP knows that should the CHP take a position of radical opposition, the AKP would not be able to recover. There is a great resistance by the Kurdish freedom movement and the democratic forces; if the CHP joins this, the AKP won’t be able to survive. By softening the CHP, the AKP wants to create a ground of legitimacy for itself amongs the CHP’s base and in Turkish society, to design a new politics through it, to recover, and to regain strength and energy. In this sense, there is such an operation on the CHP.

We don’t know how well the opposition within the system evaluates this or whether it is inclined to do so. This is also reflected in state policy. It may also have an international dimension. There may be those who encourage the CHP and others who encourage the AKP. But this politics will not really bring anything to the society and peoples of Turkey.

It is a matter of fact that without a democratic solution to the Kurdish question, Turkey cannot be democratized, it cannot have law, democracy, and justice. This poverty and hunger cannot be overcome. Now they are talking about inflation, there is a serious economic collapse. The crisis stage has been surpassed, and now their economy is at a stage of collapse. What is the reason for this? The genocidal war on the Kurds. The genocidal war on the Kurds is the cause, inflation is the result. This is the truth of the matter. One can never evaluate the problems of justice and law in Turkey separately from this. The genocidal war on the Kurds is the source and cause of all kinds of lawlessness. It is the cause of injustice. The law is not being applied in Imrali. What is the reason for this? It is the Kurdish question. Because Rêber Apo [Abdullah Öcalan] is there as a result of the Kurdish question. He is in Imrali as a cause and consequence. Torture and the isolation system are the results of this. Without overcoming this, how will Turkey ever recover? How will it normalize?

The CHP has had various rallies so far; they went to Rize, held a tea rally, and held a wheat rally. It was the genocidal war on the Kurds that led to the tea crisis in Rize. It was also the genocidal war on the Kurds that caused the wheat crisis among farmers. All of Turkey’s resources are spent on war. Why doesn’t the CHP question the main cause and source of this problem? All of these are results. After the local elections, the CHP should have had a project, a program, for the democratic solution of the Kurdish question. They should have announced such a program. They should have held comprehensive rallies everywhere and disclosed their policies to the public. If it really wants to change this regime and bring law and justice to Turkey, this is the most powerful method of struggle. This is the understanding and style they should develop. This is what would challenge and destroy the AKP-MHP regime the most. Right now, there is no sound on this issue. In this sense, the CHP is pulling society toward liberalism.

In a way, society’s anger has risen in Turkey. Tension has risen against this fascist regime. Kılıçdaroğlu had barred society from raising their voices on the streets and squares, and instead pointed to ballot boxes every time society had complaints. With the spirit of Yenikapi, the CHP’s former leader Kılıçdaroğlu only strengthened the AKP-MHP government. Now, if Ozgur Ozel is holding rallies based on the results of the genocidal war on the Kurds to decharge the rising anger of society, to lower the rising tension, to pacify society, to legitimize the AKP-MHP fascist regime and to be a partner in its crimes, Ozgur will not be able to put forward a policy different from that of Kılıçdaroğlu or Deniz Baykal. He will end up like Kılıçdaroğlu and Deniz Baykal. We need to stand very strongly against this. The democratic forces in particular need to organize very strongly and develop a strong resistance against this fascist regime.

It is the united resistance of the peoples that will overthrow this collapsing, fascist AKP-MHP regime. In this sense, a very important political climate has emerged in Turkey with these local elections. A very strong ground has emerged. There is a very strong ground for organizing a strong movement of democracy across Turkey, for organizing an anti-fascist movement. Now, it is the democratic forces of Kurdistan and Turkey and their united struggle that will organize this ground and this potential. A certain stage has been reached, but this struggle is still not completely united. It is still disorganized and fragmented. In other words, the struggle has not created complete synergy. From that point of view, there is huge potential because the masses are angry and reject this fascist regime. It is necessary to mobilize this potential in an organized manner. It is necessary to unite these energies in a common struggle.

This responsibility falls on the democratic forces: the DEM Party, HDK, and all the others. There are still weaknesses in mobilization and waging a united common struggle. Should these democratic forces unite, if they could put forward the will for a united common struggle, millions would walk with them. They would take to the streets. Millions are ready for this. We have seen this. So what is the problem? There is a problem with leadership, there is a lack of a strong alliance. There is the problem of organizing a common, united struggle and leading society. This problem has still not been overcome. If they can achieve this, they can also put serious pressure on the CHP and prevent the CHP from falling into the traps of this AKP-MHP fascist government. They can prevent the CHP from becoming a partner in these dirty policies. Even if the CHP does not agree with this, a democratic alliance can draw the attention of the CHP base. Because the CHP base is still trying to understand the current policies. It has not yet made sense of it. It is skeptical and very critical. It is trying to understand; it is reacting.

Ecological activism seems to be spreading in and from northern Kurdistan, extending to Turkey too. How do you evaluate the current state of the ecological movement?

The ecology movement is gradually developing in Turkey. There is an ecocide going on in Kurdistan as part of the government’s genocide policies. Extraction sites are dotted around the region. There are hydroelectric power plants, dams, and sand quarries everywhere. The government is destroying the nature of Kurdistan, eliminating ecology, destroying living things, and changing the climate. Now, these same exploitative policies are being introduced in Turkey too.

Resistance is developing among our people in Colemerg and in Dersim around the Munzur waters. Step by step, there is some resistance emerging. In Turkey, there is resistance in Ikizdere, Akbelen, Mount Ida, and Focha. This is developing, but it is piecemeal. If this ecology movement can be turned into a united and strong ecology movement in Kurdistan and Turkey, this ecocide can be prevented to a great extent. This would deal a big blow to fascism and cause great destruction. But these resistances are also fragmented and disorganized. This needs to be overcome quickly. This struggle for ecology is also a struggle for democracy. This is a fundamental work that requires and necessitates the organizing of a very comprehensive, joint, and united democratic alliance and movement. Women’s struggle is an example of this. The women’s movement in Kurdistan and Turkey is growing. If we could carry out ecological resistance alongside the antifascist democracy movement, fascism could not survive a day. But there is a lack of leadership in this sense. This obstacle must be overcome quickly.