KCK Executive Council Member Mustafa Karasu said that "it is possible to overthrow this Imrali system."

Let's start with the leader of the Kurdish people, Abdullah Öcalan, and his situation in isolation. He has been in total isolation for over three years and there is no news about him. How do you evaluate this, especially with regard to the international institutions such as the ‘European Committee for the Prevention of Torture and Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment’ (CPT), which were actually created to intervene in such situations?

Rêber Apo [Abdullah Öcalan] has been in isolation now for more than 25 years. His captivity has entered its 26th year. On the very first day, while evaluating the Imrali system, Rêber Apo said that the CPT was responsible for his captivity and that they had established the Imrali system together. As a matter of fact, they are in constant contact with Turkey. The CPT is not a body of law. It presents itself as such, but it definitely depends on political will. When they visit prisons, they cannot publish their reports without the permission of the Turkish government. The approach of the CPT is also the approach of Europe. It is part of Europe’s Turkey policy. In fact, the CPT legitimizes the Imrali system with this attitude.

After all, they were the first ones there when Rêber Apo arrived in Imrali, because they were the founders of this system, as well as Europe, and the ‘Council of Europe’ (CoE). Now, with this attitude, they are maintaining the system that they legitimized, accepted and created together. If Turkey can carry this out, if it can maintain isolation in such a severe manner, it means that a country that wants to become a member of the European Union and is a member of the CoE has the approval of Europe, that they’ve legitimized and normalized it.

This is exactly how the CPT’s approach should be seen, and this reality should be exposed. Because they deceive the world, they deceive the peoples. Here is the CPT, the body for the prevention of torture. It goes to prisons, checks, and says that it prevents torture, but there has been isolation on Imrali for 3 years. For 3 years, Rêber Apo has not been allowed to meet with his lawyers or his family. But the CPT seems to consider this normal. There is no reaction to this, no stance is taken by them. It is necessary to struggle against this situation. We cannot break this Imrali system without struggling, without exposing it. So, it is necessary to criticize and expose the CPT as an institution. Again, we should not expect too much; the CPT works under the CoE. It pretends to be a legal institution, but it is directly dependent on politics. It acts in line with the order of politics. That is why the CPT really needs to be exposed.

There are mechanisms like this in Europe and in many other parts of the world. They have established institutions that deceive peoples and societies. There are a lot of institutions that bare the label of ‘acting under human rights’. They present themselves as institutions for freedom, for the defense of democracy, but they have no real role. Their only role is to deceive society. They obscure and cover up society’s demand for democracy, for freedom, for human rights. They become institutions to frustrate such demands, such aspirations. It is necessary to expose them. Because this is how these injustices are kept alive. They deceive societies by saying that they have democracy, human rights, and that they are against torture, and want freedom. This is a mask that needs to be torn off. Only in this way, only if it is forced, will these institutions confess the truth. They try to abide by some universal rules and principles. They do this in order to maintain their existence, to survive. But if they are not struggled against, they will certainly continue to deceive societies and peoples. The CPT continues to present itself as if it is an institution that visits European prisons and prevents torture; it really needs to be unmasked. There have been no meetings there for three years. Society does not know, his family doesn’t know, is Rêber Apo alive or not? We don’t know about his health. Doesn’t his family have rights? But this is being kept silent. Rêber Apo can not even see his lawyers. This is a very serious legal problem.

The legitimacy of the Imrali system has been weakened more than ever before. It has really become unable to justify itself. If it is addressed, if a struggle is waged, it is possible to overthrow this Imrali system and ensure that Rêber Apo can meet with his family and lawyers and be free. The attitude of the CPT is a reason for us to raise our struggle. It is a reason to wage a struggle for the peoples. It is a reason to wage a struggle for all humanity.

To get away from international institutions, how do you evaluate the latest developments in the struggle against the Imrali system?

First and foremost, I congratulate the hundreds of thousands who participated in the rally in Europe and also those who marched from Wan and Serhed for the freedom of Rêber Apo in Kurdistan. They really put forward an important action, struggle and attitude. They clearly showed that the Kurdish people and all democrats are against the isolation of Rêber Apo, that they are against the international conspiracy and that they want the freedom of Rêber Apo.

The demand for Rêber Apo’s freedom is no longer just one of the Kurdish people, it has become the demand of all humanity, democratic forces, freedom searching forces, socialist forces, women, ecologists. The ideas of Rêber Apo, the paradigm put forward by him, are an alternative to the system created through capitalist modernity which is strangling humanity and society and aggravating social problems. Rêber Apo shows the way out. Humanity sees this, especially women, democratic forces and laborers see this. The Kurdish people already see Rêber Apo’s freedom as their own freedom. They are carrying out their own freedom struggle together with the freedom struggle of Rêber Apo.

In this respect, the attitude of our people was really important on February 15, as well as the attitude of their international friends is important. The attitude of our people in Europe is important. There is clearly an attitude and struggle against the conspiracy. The international conspiracy, in the face of humanity, has been strongly condemned. There is nothing left to defend it. It is the USA and Israel that carried out this conspiracy back then and Turkey was left with the result. Ecevit, the former Turkish prime minister, said, 'Why did they give Apo to us? We don’t know. We don’t understand why they gave him to us.'

In this respect, the stage the struggle has reached against the conspiracy is very important. There was a global campaign launched on October 10 and on December 10, there were entire days dedicated to reading the prison writings of Rêber Apo. Through these, Rêber Apo’s freedom has become a universal demand. This day has become a day that democratic forces and peoples all over the world embrace and struggle for. In this respect, the struggle for the freedom of Rêber Apo has become very strong. The struggle against the conspiracy has become very strong. Of course, let us emphasize this again. Let us always emphasize it. Our martyrs built defense walls around the leadership with their campaign and struggle; those comrades who sacrificed themselves for the freedom of their leader.

It is the 25-year struggle of our people that has brought the struggle against the conspiracy to the level it is at today. It is not in vain, no struggle is ever wasted. If this 25-year struggle had not been waged, if this sacrifice, this struggle for the freedom of Rêber Apo had not taken place for 25 years, the struggle against this international conspiracy would not have reached this level today. We need to see it like this. The situation that we have today is the result of great labor, is the result of great sacrifices. Now it is time to smash the doors of Imrali. They have no legitimacy. Something that has no legitimacy cannot stand. It is so in the political field, it is so in the social field, it is so in the cultural field. Everything without legitimacy is doomed to collapse and fall apart.

The conspiracy is an event which has no legitimacy. The Imrali system is being kept alive by force. It is condemned by the conscience of humanity. The Kurdish people do not accept it. The majority of the forces currently involved in the conspiracy are not on the side of the conspiratorial forces. They are in no position to defend this conspiracy. Right now, only Turkey is in a position to openly defend the conspiracy. There is also the ‘Kurdistan Democratic Party’ (KDP). This collaboration between the KDP and the Turkish state is, in a way, a policy, a relationship to continue the international conspiracy.

Now, in the second stage of the global campaign, it must definitely be socialized and popularized. The Kurdish people and society should embrace the campaign in the widest way and wage a struggle. They should carry this out in the political field, socially, and struggle for it on the legal level. They must also struggle for it in the field of diplomacy and this struggle must now be raised to a level that will liberate Rêber Apo. This is close. It is necessary to believe in this.

25 years ago, when the conspiracy took place, the international powers were saying “the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) is finished, Rêber Apo is finished”. That is why they put him in prison. This is what they thought. But the result of the struggle is evident at the point we have reached today. Rêber Apo’s influence has grown and the struggle against the conspiracy has also grown. The conspiracy has been exposed. The struggle against the conspiracy has ceased to be only a Kurdish struggle, it has become a struggle for humanity; the struggle against the conspiracy has become a struggle for the freedom of humanity. Humanity sees the struggle against the conspiracy as the struggle for the freedom of laborers and women, as the struggle for the liberation of humanity. They want to free the Leadership, the initiator of the projects that show the path of salvation to humanity. They don’t think of the conspiracy as just a person being held in a prison; their struggle is not merely to get a person out of prison, out of isolation and torture. There is a struggle to liberate the leader, who has the ideology that will liberate people, laborers and women. When there is such a goal, when there is such a target, of course, acceptance of responsibility for this duty is growing like an avalanche, it has grown and will grow even more. In Europe, they have started the second phase. It was the international friends of the Kurdish people, intellectuals, academics, democrats and trade unionists who started the first phase. Now they have started the second phase. Our duty as Kurdish people is to transform the second phase into a more social movement and get Rêber Apo out of captivity.