PKK Executive Committee Member Duran Kalkan spoke about the KDP attitude, the Turkish attacks on Rojava and South Kurdistan and the rise of fascism in Turkey. 

The first part of this interview can be read here

The KDP and Iraqi officials came out and accused the PKK of burning some places. Considering the developments afterward, especially those on July 3rd, what are we to understand of these accusations, and what will be the repercussions on Kurdistan and Iraq?

This has been evaluated by a variety of groups. Some of our friends also voiced their opinions. Actually, the evaluations of the co-presidency are adequate. What can be understood is that the Iraqi state, the KDP administration, and the Turkish state all knew they were making a decision that no one would accept. They feared a backlash if it came to light that they had sold a portion of their homeland to the Turkish state. They knew there would be a reaction, so they tried to confuse and mislead with such allegations in order to cover the issue. They claimed that we had started the fires in Hewler (Erbil), but this is not something new.

There was such a tragedy in Hewler, but the occurrence of such fires is not new. In fact, they have been ongoing for months and several even claimed responsibility back then. Our Central Headquarters had deciphered these events.

In reality, these cities are being burned in such a heinous manner to divert attention away from the crimes of an anti-Kurdish, anti-human alliance. Why does the AKP-aligned press never report these fires? With so many armored forces entering certain places and so many attacks taking place, surely this would raise security concerns? This is the same Turkish state that goes to unimaginable measures if it even shoots a villager, broadcasting widely, giving full-length speeches and passing them off as news on tickers, claiming to have killed a terrorist. There have been so many attacks since 3 July. Why has the Turkish press not mentioned any of this? The goal is to minimize reaction. That’s how they agreed. The Hewler conspiracy is also based on this.

They know very well that there are no PKK members in Hewler. In fact, they state this themselves. On 16 May 1997, the KDP brazenly massacred 75 PKK members in Hewler. There have been no PKK members in Hewler since then. But Hakan Fidan’s MIT and Devlet Bahceli’s dogs are in Hewler. They are the ones burning and destroying, committing atrocities. The areas under the administration of the KDP are full of MIT and Bahceli’s dogs. But now the KDP is in such collusion, that it actually wants to mask its own situation.

I would like to add the following on this issue: the KDP does not want the presence of any organization other than itself in Kurdistan. It does not accept the presence of anyone who has not sworn allegiance to Barzanis. For them, this is the criterion. We can also see how they are targeting the PUK. They also wanted to make the PUK a partner to their crimes. They are that desperate now. Why? If there were no other organization or power in the South, the South would practically become a Barzani farm. This is their aim; this is why they are attacking the PKK.

Masoud Barzani should know that we are well aware of the files he had given to the Roman court for them to persecute Rêber Apo. We have every one of those files. For the past 26 years, Rêber Apo has been enduring torture in Imrali. We know the perpetrators of this conspiracy well.

This family has become a dynasty; they are called the Barzani clan. They used to wage a tribal war and have now sold off many of the tribal areas they were opposed to. They sold the areas of the Bradost, Rekani, Nerwehi, Berwari, Guls, Sindi to Turkey. Thus, they are positioning Turkey to ensure the security of Barzanis. They are spreading Barzanis everywhere. They took Diyana, they took Hewler and made it a Barzani city. They want to take Kirkuk and Sulaymaniyah too. They have been feeding off the blood of Kurdistan for forty years. This family dynasty must be stopped. I mean, it has come to such a point that there is no relationship they won’t establish for personal interests, for family interests. There is nothing they won’t sell. The KDP has reached such a point that they could go to any length to ensure that their personal and family interests are fulfilled. The KDP used to get votes in the areas that it supposedly ruled. They even sold these areas to the Turkish Republic for their own interests.

So here, not as a clan, but as a dynasty, the KDP has been a thorn in the side of Kurdistan, the Kurdish society. It is necessary to put a stop to this. The KDP has no right to do this. In this respect, everyone must wake up. All Kurds must see the truth. Kurdish organizations must see the truth. The KDP has gone as far as to say that those who do not swear allegiance to Barzanis do not have the right to live. All Kurdish organizations must fight against this. They must unite. They must develop a more effective stance. There is no other way. The KDP has crossed the border.

In such an atmosphere, there is a serious rise in fascism. We saw this most recently in Kayseri, Turkey. There were attacks on Syrian migrants. Should we see this as an impulsive event or is there a different scheme behind this? I mean, how should this threat be perceived?

This is only the tip of the iceberg. Actually, in Kayseri, in those shootings, most of these killings were signed off as unresolved murders. This is not new; it happens frequently but with less coverage. But these killings are only the tip of the iceberg; there is more to it. The state is carrying out preparations. They are rehearsing, as one of the women from that organization explained. She said: 'sometimes we rehearse.' They really are rehearsing. We have touched on this in the past, several times. The AKP-MHP alliance and their rule should not be evaluated only economically and politically. They are mentally and psychologically brainwashing people. They are creating their own inhumane mobs. And they are organized. They have gangs and militia who are equipped and armed. They are all armed. The MHP also has such a mob. The AKP has many. They survive through these mobs, using them as leverage for all kinds of pressure and blackmail. In fact, they even conducted killings within their own ranks. The Sinan Ates case is an example. The MHP and the AKP have their own militias.

It is important to understand and evaluate this AKP-MHP government and organization more accurately. They are not just the administration of a state. They have each organized their own herds and gangs by brainwashing and provoking. This is how they run things. This is a great danger. In fact, this is how a political administration survives. It is becoming clear that just changing the government will not change the governance in Turkey.

In this respect, it is necessary to evaluate the antifascist struggle more accurately. No one is actually safe in Turkey, let alone the Syrian refugees. In fact, the government lured them into Turkey, used them as leverage against Europe for money, it then took this money, extorted it, and continues to keep them under threat of harm. Now, the government has milked all they can, they are done with the Syrians. So, they will do all kinds of things. Not only Syrians, but all those who have crossed into Turkey, have no security. Kurds are in the same situation, particularly the Alevis, and especially women everywhere are in the same situation. All other cultural minority groups are in the same situation.

Everyone should see this reality, take precautions and organize more. Where ever they may be, people should be responsible for their own security. We call it self-defense. While the attackers have armed themselves with all kinds of weapons and are training for a fascist attack, the other side is unorganized. People must be equipped. Antifascist, democratic forces must also train and organize themselves. They must turn themselves into a force of resistance. In this sense, the struggle against fascism must become more radical and stronger.

Yes, there is an antifascist democratic force. There is a united struggle, alliances are developing. But these are limited to elections. That is, within the limits of state approval. Yes, there have been reactions to the repression and the appointment of trustees. There is a certain struggle which is important and meaningful. They should be developed much more, made stronger and more widespread. But I want to express that this is not enough.

We have asked, even before these incidents occurred, that the people see the reality of the state better. Only a fraction of the potential harm was seen during the attacks against Syrians. Then we must be more vigilant, more prepared. Everyone must be more careful, organized and educated. In other words, these antifascist, revolutionary, democratic, leftist forces and circles should see the real situation better. It is impossible to ignore it. We cannot bury our heads in the sand. Some might think that this is difficult, or dangerous even, but this danger is present whether we react or not reacting is a danger in itself. So how do we ensure our own security? And how do we develop the struggle to overthrow fascism more effectively? These are the right questions.

I don’t want to spread fear, I don’t want to express anything too pessimistic, but it is clear that we need to take a serious approach, we need to see the real, concrete situation and act according to its requirements, according to the concrete reality of the concrete conditions. Everyone should know this. Since we are in a position of fierce struggle, we see these realities firsthand, and we just want to inform, to explain our thoughts, to warn, so to speak, as part of our duty. But everyone should really be more careful, more sensitive, more organized and educated against them.

Erdoğan’s anti-Kurdish policy has come to defeat, it is failing. Since 19 July, we have seen that the liquidation attacks against the Rojava Revolution have also been increasing. There is a rapprochement between Assad and Erdoğan in this direction. What are your thoughts on this anti-PKK alliance that they want to establish?

First of all, I salute the North and East Syrian Freedom Revolution on its 12th anniversary. I congratulate the peoples of North and East Syria and commemorate their martyrs with respect and gratitude. The Rojava revolution has been a product of great courage and a daring belief. It is a strong revolutionary experience. Now it has been going on for 12 years. At the beginning, some were anticipating we couldn’t maintain control for a year or two. Evidently, we are beyond this point. It is true that there are problems and shortcomings which are evaluated and criticized; that is a separate issue, but it is an indisputable fact that it is a revolutionary experience with very rich lessons. In other words, Rojava has been the force of enlightenment during our day.

Should one evaluate and understand Rojava well, it is a school of truths, a vivid and profound experience. Of course, this was at a great cost. The peoples, women and young people of Northern and Eastern Syria paid a high price. But they have created a great legacy. We hope that in the coming year they will solve more of their problems and overcome more of their shortcomings. They will act more consciously, organized and stronger for the implementation of the paradigm of democratic modernity. They will develop the ideological and cultural depth and effectiveness of the revolution much more strongly. In other words, the revolution will become permanent.

Rojava aspires to becoming a political power; it will face many obstacles which they can overcome with creativity. But these obstacles come from many directions. Foremost is the Erdoğan obstacle. The AKP-MHP fascist, colonialist, genocidal dictatorship is an obstacle. All the AKP-MHP speaks about is the 'PKK-PYD' and nothing else. Tayyip Erdoğan is probably delirious in his sleep at night. Everywhere he goes, he begs for an alliance against the PKK. Whether he meets with Putin or Assad, all he wants is some partners against the PKK. Everything he does is anti-PKK and anti-Kurdish. He mobilizes all the means of Turkey to fight against the PKK and to achieve the Kurdish genocide.

Erdoğan has continuously attacked the Medya Defense Zones, launching new attacks because he has not succeeded. Had he succeeded, he would have organized many more attacks against Rojava. In other words, he couldn’t do what he wanted. He failed there too. In fact, Tayyip Erdoğan’s anti-Kurdish policy is also in complete defeat and failure. So is his Syria policy as a whole. Many circles are now holding elections around the world, from the US to the UK, Iran, Azerbaijan – 2024 is a year of elections. Everyone is preparing themselves. Following these elections, governments may develop new policies against or for North and East Syria. But despite all the attacks, the Autonomous Administration of Northern and Eastern Syria will stand strong. There are attacks every day, attacks which can not harm or weaken the existence of the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria. Now, Erdoğan is afraid that countries might develop policies which he will not benefit from. In fact, Tayyip Erdoğan and his cohorts fear 2025 like it was their death. This is not hard to understand.

Erdoğan is afraid that many circles will get involved. This is why he wants to quickly reconcile with the Bashar al-Assad government. This is where his effort comes from. He wants to make a new anti-PKK deal with the Assad regime before the international forces interfere. He begged Putin on this basis. He will go and beg his NATO partners. He would beg Britain, he would beg Iran. In other words, he will ask them to use their influence on Assad to encourage him to make an anti-Kurdish alliance with him. The only thing he knows and does is to be anti-Kurdish, to be anti-Kurdish everywhere. This is actually his fear. Therefore, before he no longer has the power, he will want to create an agreement to save his situation. In fact, he will continue his derelict Syria policy a little longer to extend his time in power. Why? Because he needs it.

This is also related to the state of the war in the region. Despite all their efforts, they could not spark an Israeli-Iranian war even after Tayyip Erdoğan and the AKP-MHP spent months provoking such a war. They couldn’t do it. In the end, Tayyip Erdoğan was defeated. At the start, they were only doing this because of non-agreement with Israel and the USA. But now they are realizing that this war would spread to Lebanon, meaning it would spread to Cyprus. This is why they are so afraid.

So, it will come to them. They will be confronted by their own system to which they are servants. Their anti-Kurdish policies will definitely play a role in this. They could not prevent this confrontation in Gaza. Now they wonder if they can prevent it in Lebanon and Syria. They are trying to do that. The Hezbollah conflict is developing. Because there is going to be an Israeli-Iranian war in Lebanon, the AKP’s press has been constantly promoting a regional war. Tayyip Erdoğan only today, without showing a sign of shame, said that he was 'against the development of conflicts in the region.' How could Erdoğan be against it when his press provoked it in the first place? For months, they have done nothing but warmongering and provocation. But they did not succeed. Now they are afraid that should something new happen in Syria, that they themselves will be put in a difficult situation, that there will not be a conflict in Lebanon like they want. So, as they are aware, their turn will come. They are trying to delay this, or to disrupt it somewhere if possible. Because Turkey’s anti-Kurdish policy and the fact that this policy has turned Kurdistan into a bloodbath, has caused it to be excluded from the system. The fascism of the AKP-MHP has brought Turkey to the brink of complete disaster. There is no way out. In fact, there is absolutely no way out of here with these policies. The Turkish public, intellectuals and politicians have failed to understand this. No one really understood this situation and put a stop to it; no one asked the government where they were leading the country to. When that point in time arrives, they will become the slaves of slaves, or they will fall apart.

Ten years ago, Rêber Apo evaluated this and warned about it. He demonstrated the correct policies and solutions. So, it is clear that the solution lies in Rêber Apo’s thoughts. It is clear that Rêber Apo had already presented the solution, but they cannot admit this, so they continue heading for disaster. Let’s assume that Tayyip Erdoğan and Devlet Bahceli let the country come to that point because they would benefit. What about the other segments of the people, the revolutionary democratic segments? They should see this reality better. In this respect, they should develop a more effective, more holistic struggle against this anti-Kurdish, misogynist, anti-people, fascist, genocidal mentality and system.