Besê Hozat, co-president of the KCK Executive Council, said that "the war that Israel is currently waging in Lebanon and Gaza cannot be considered as a war just affecting these places and only affecting these forces." She added: "In fact, this war is a regional war and its center is Kurdistan. This war has been going on in Kurdistan for decades. The second phase of the international campaign for Öcalan will continue in this framework."

The first part of this interview can be read here

Last month, the Committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe adopted a resolution regarding the so-called ‘Right to Hope’. How do you evaluate the Committee of Ministers’ decision on the violation of the ‘Right to Hope’?

As I pointed out, they had to take such a decision as a result of the struggle. The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) took a decision in 2014 and determined its approach back then. It basically said, "There is isolation and torture in Imrali; this is a violation of human rights; this is unacceptable; it is a crime." Accordingly, it asked the Turkish state to end the isolation and torture. But that is it. Afterward, they kept silent and did not take any further steps. From 2014 until 2024, they never again put it on the agenda. They did not question why their decision was not implemented even after ten years.

They did not question why the isolation still continued. When this campaign started, when the struggle grew all over the world, when it became universal, when many people in many international areas reacted to the isolation, the Committee of Ministers (CM) of the Council of Europe (CoE) had to convene and take a decision. They told the Turkish state that it must end the isolation and fix the system within a year. We consider this to be great hypocrisy. Where have you been for the last ten years? For ten years there has been a system of absolute isolation and torture in Imrali. Knowing this, why did you remain silent?

Ten years have passed, and only today are they meeting and making such a decision. Of course, it is important that they took such a decision as a result of the struggle, but they are interconnected with the Turkish state. For ten years, the Turkish state has been conducting a policy of genocide against the Kurdish people. There are great attacks in every area, and the international powers are also partners in these attacks; they support the Turkish state. 'You can completely neutralize Öcalan, eliminate the freedom movement, liquidate it, and bring the genocide concept against the Kurdish people to a conclusion.' That is what they told them. They support them, turn a blind eye on them, and do not make a sound.

Encouraged by this, the Turkish state has been carrying out a genocidal concept against the Kurdish people for over ten years. It wants to neutralize the Kurdish people all over the world. For example, there were two massacres against friends of mine in Paris. And they also maintained the system of solitary confinement against Rêber Apo [Abdullah Öcalan]. But still, they could not get results. Today, the Third World War has entered its most strategic stage. The position of the Turkish state harms the interests of Europe, America, and NATO. They saw that they could not neutralize Rêber Apo, the freedom movement, and the Kurdish people, that they could not weaken their will, and that they could not bring the concept of international powers to a conclusion. That is why they have made some changes in their approach. Not completely, but they still gave the Turkish state a last chance. In fact, through blackmailing and putting them under pressure, they are telling the Turkish state that it has to act in accordance with their interests.

They are telling the Turkish leaders that they have to adjust their axis one hundred percent to Europe and America; otherwise, they say, their position will gradually change. They are giving such a message to the Turkish state. In fact, that is why they are giving the Turkish state one more year. Neither Europe nor the Western Bloc can support the Turkish state in such a position any longer. The Turkish state is now a big burden to them. They are also being disgraced. The struggle waged by our people and our international friends exposes and disgraces them too. Because they are all partners of the Turkish state. Everyone sees that their law and democracy are fake.

They say they are the center of democracy, democratic law, and human rights, but the Kurdish people, the peoples of the region, and the peoples of Europe see that all this is actually fake, that it is political propaganda, that it is for the dirty interests of the governments. Their real faces are being exposed. The Turkish state has been blackmailing Europe for ten years. They used ISIS as blackmail. Again, they lured the entire Syrian people to Turkey, and today they say that more than four million Syrians are in Turkey. They received money from the European Union through the refugees. They made agreements to leave the refugees in Turkey and not send them to Europe. They took Europe hostage, and at the same time they took money from them. That money did not help the refugees in the slightest. These policies are bankrupt. Europe is trying to get out of this hostage position.

The decision taken by the CM of the CoE is incomplete and too late. It is a point to criticize, but as they say, it is better to cut your losses. They were very wrong; they conducted a very dirty policy; they supported the genocide concept of the Turkish state; they were complicit. Now they want to change their policies; even if it is late, even if it is incomplete, it is still a positive step. Europe should no longer be a partner in this crime. An end must be set to this persecution against the Kurdish people. They are persecuting the Kurdish people in the person of Rêber Apo, and they are waging war. Therefore, the Turkish state must fulfill whatever international law requires. An end must be set to isolation and torture. Rêber Apo has the right to hope; he must be tried again. The conditions in Imrali must change immediately; this is important.

According to your opinion, in what ways and methods should the campaign continue from now on? In particular, what kind of political, ideological, social, moral, and legal struggle should be waged in Kurdistan and abroad in order for the second phase of the campaign to succeed?

This is an important question. One year has passed, and it is very important for us to succeed in the coming year. Because as I said, the Third World War in the region has now reached a strategic stage. The war is spreading every day and there is a possibility that it will spread to Iran and Turkey as well. The war that Israel is currently waging in Lebanon and Gaza cannot be considered as a war just affecting these places and only affecting these forces. In fact, this war is a regional war and its center is Kurdistan. This war has been going on in Kurdistan for decades. The second phase of the campaign will continue in this framework.

The success of this campaign will determine the fate of the Kurdish people and the peoples of the Middle East. The Turkish state wants to complete its genocide plans at this stage of the war. That is why the Turkish state will insist on the war of genocide and deepen it. The war waged by Israel has turned into a war between Iran, Israel and Turkey. And the Turkish state wants to take advantage of it, to finalize its genocide policy. Therefore, the second phase of the campaign must be continued with total resistance in every field. The campaign was carried out successfully last year and achieved important results, but it is not enough. The method is not enough because of the war being waged in the world today.

There are great dangers for our people, there is a great danger for the peoples of the Middle East. If a strong resistance is not put up in every field, if a strong struggle is not waged, there is a high risk that our people and the peoples of the region will face a great genocide. No one should deny this danger. That is why our people must be very, very careful. Our people must be organized wherever they are. They must organize ways of self-defense and must be in a total resistance. This total resistance must also include the physical freedom of Rêber Apo. For this campaign, the freedom of Rêber Apo, our people and the peoples of the region must always be the basis. There are genocidal attacks on our people in northern Kurdistan and a total war is being waged in every military, economic, cultural and political field. The center of this war is Imrali. Our people have always stood up until today, they have put up great resistance, but it is still not enough.

The Third World War is deepening day by day, and the genocidal attacks against our people will increase. That is why our people must rise up. They are holding rallies now; this is important; there will be a rally in Amed (tr. Diyarbakir) on October 13th; there will be a rally in Istanbul, and many alike. These are valuable. Everyone who is against fascism, genocide, and this system must take part in the rallies. Hundreds of thousands, millions of people should attend the rallies. But everything does not end with these rallies. The resistance must continue; it must be permanent. All areas, streets, and squares must be filled with peoples. Our people must stand up against all attacks on the guerrillas, language, culture, economy, and ecology. They must be in a state of self-defense, wage a revolutionary people’s war, and be in a state of total resistance. This is important. The political sphere should carry out more effective policy and diplomacy. And without a doubt, the ideological struggle must be deepened.

The same goes for Rojava. For example, the danger to Rojava is increasing day by day. The Turkish state is waiting for a good conjuncture to emerge in order to carry out a new invasion and genocidal attack. It is waiting for an opportunity to occupy the whole of Rojava. On this basis, it is working on diplomacy in every field. The Turkish state wants to benefit from Israel’s war against Hezbollah, Palestine, Lebanon, and Iran. One of its main targets is Rojava. Our people in Rojava must prepare for a revolutionary war at all its levels. They must strengthen their defense forces. It is not enough just to march and shout slogans. All of our people must organize and form a self-defense force. Everyone, from the old to the young, from women to men, must organize on the basis of self-defense. Everyone should be a member of SDF, YPG, and YPJ and defend their country, values, freedom, and existence on this basis. The same accounts for southern Kurdistan. The Turkish state has plans according to the Misak-i Mili. All our people in southern Kurdistan need to be in resistance.

There is a war against Rêber Apo. But Rêber Apo is not just a person; he stands for the whole of Kurdistan. When one reads about the plans and policies against Rêber Apo well, one understands what kind of policy is being carried out against Kurdistan. Therefore, we cannot consider the physical freedom of Rêber Apo and the freedom of Kurdistan independently of each other. We cannot consider the struggle for Rêber Apo’s physical freedom independent of defending our own existence, country, freedom, and generally human values. That is why the peoples all over the world must be in a state of permanent resistance and struggle. That is why our people should welcome the second year of the campaign in this way. Of course, the legal part of the struggle was also very important and brought positive results. It forms one of the pillars of social resistance. We must attach importance to this in the coming year as well.

The dissemination of Rêber Apo’s ideas must be done very effectively. The prison writings should be read, conferences, workshops and discussions should be held based on them. There should be a lot of programs on the paradigm of democratic nation in the media. We need an effective ideological struggle in this field as well. Again, in the coming year, a more effective diplomatic and political struggle must be waged. All of these are very important. In connection with this, I am strongly convinced that next year will be the year when Rêber Apo’s physical freedom is achieved and the Kurdish people and Kurdistan are liberated. For this, a total struggle must be waged in every field.