In part two of his interview with Stêrk TV, KCK Executive Council Co-chair Cemil Bayık spoke about the new Turkish attacks on Rojava and the recent developments in the Middle East.

The first part of the interview can be read here.

On October 1, two militants of the PKK, Rojhat Zîlan and Erdal Şahin, staged an attack in Ankara and shook the country. The Turkish state used this as an excuse to attack Rojava [North Syria]. What does the action in Ankara has to do with the attacks on Rojava?

First of all, I would like to pay tribute to the comrades Rojhat and Erdal. These friends fulfilled a historical duty for the Kurdish people and humanity. They made a great sacrifice by bravely facing the enemy. They carried out their action against the Ministry of Interior from where the Kurdish genocide is controlled. The enemy is trying to eliminate the Kurdish people and our comrades sent a message with their action. It basically said: “You want to eliminate the Kurdish people, but we don’t accept this. Those who want to eliminate us should know that we will eliminate them first.” The peoples of Turkey cannot live with the genocide of the Kurdish people. Those who commit genocide against the Kurdish people are committing genocide themselves. With this action, the friends revealed the true face of the Turkish state. Therefore, this action is historical. With this action, the dirty propaganda of the Turkish state that says, “We have destroyed the PKK. The PKK does not exist anymore, it can’t do anything, we have ensured peace in Turkey, we kill so many guerrillas every day.” has been nullified.

It should be seen as a fact that a government that lives on murdering and its propaganda is a fascist and genocidal government. The action in Ankara made this propaganda null and void. This action showed once again that the Turkish state is deceiving everyone. Although there is such a big war, the AKP-MHP government denies it and even still tries to deny the existence of the Kurdish question. They try to hide the ongoing war and they also try to hide the dead soldiers from the society. They are always propagating that they are killing guerrillas and ending the PKK, but this action has shown that all this is a lie. The enemy was shocked because the action revealed the whole reality of the Turkish state, because it nullified their propaganda, because it brought the reality of this intensive war in the middle of their country. Therefore, they didn’t know what to do. They wanted to break the effect of this action with counter-attacks.

Every day they are arresting Kurds in Northern Kurdistan [South-East Turkey] and call these arrests and detentions ‘Operation Heroes’. What heroism do they have? I mean, what have they done to become heroes? They even put this name to deceive the people. The peoples of Turkey have to hold the ones responsible for the arrestings to account. They have to ask: “Is your heroism to raid houses with all your might, arrest people, torture them, insult them, throw them in prison? Is this heroism?” They launch attacks in the Medya Defense Zones [areas controlled by the guerrillas] every day, making propaganda about how many guerrillas they kill. But this remains just propaganda. Because even when they have not martyred even one guerrilla, they deceive the public and foreign countries in this way. In fact, their aim was to launch a new attack on Rojava. They had already taken the decision to attack Rojava. Regarding this, Erdoğan openly said, “We have made a decision and we are waiting for the right time.” They attacked Rojava using the attack in Ankara as an excuse. They said: “The attackers came from Rojava. Rojava is dangerous for us, so we will take revenge.” This is how they put into practice the decision they had already taken before. They themselves and the whole world know that those friends did not come from Rojava. But the Turkish state attacked Rojava because they are enemies of everything Kurdish. Before they attacked, they said that the power stations, factories, in other words, whatever is on the ground and underground is their target, their army and intelligence will attack everything. They threatened that every 3rd party must withdraw, that no one should stand in their way. They claimed: “Whoever stands against us, we will target them too.”

As a matter of a fact, Turkey alone does not have the power to carry out these brutal attacks against Rojava. It was by the decision of NATO and America that they attacked all these locations, because it is a NATO member state. If NATO does not give permission, Turkey cannot carry out these attacks against Rojava and kill people. If they had not approved the Turkish state’s decisions to attack, the Turkish state would not have been able to carry out these attacks, and if they had, they would have stood against them. The Turkish state obeys neither the laws nor the morality of war. It does whatever it pleases. Because it wants to eliminate the Kurds, that is why it bombs everywhere. It destroys living spaces, power plants, water reservoirs, wheat warehouses, oil facilities, hospitals, factories of the people. How will those people live there when everything gets destroyed? This is a great immorality and a war crime. Those who give way to this are collaborating with the Turkish state. Our people have already stated this. They said they will not accept this. They will not leave their lands no matter what they do. They said: “Maybe we will die, but we will die in our land.” They showed such a determined stance. I would like to take this opportunity to thank and congratulate the people of Rojava and commemorate the martyrs of Rojava with gratitude and pay my respect and esteem to them.

While Erdoğan is carrying out these attacks on Rojava, on the other hand, he is supposedly protecting Gaza. How do you evaluate this situation?

Erdoğan, Turkey, the government and the opposition are acting hypocritically. They think they are cunning and think they can hide what they are doing in front of everyone’s eyes and no one will understand. They are supposedly protecting Gaza and Palestine, but those who take the genocide of the Kurds as a basis can never be a friend to the Palestinian people. There are two fundamental problems in the Middle East. One is the Palestinian question and the other is the Kurdish question. As long as these two problems are not solved, there will be war and massacres, and no space for freedom and democracy in the Middle East. When these two problems are solved, the Middle East will be at peace, change will take place, democracy and freedom will develop. The hegemonic powers never want these problems to be solved, because they have built their system on them. The system of capitalist modernity never wants problems to be solved. That is why they instead always create new problems.

Our people, the Palestinian people and the people of the region need to understand this situation well. We want to develop a Kurdish-Arab alliance. Because it is these peoples in the Middle East who are being torn apart, facing severe problems, being subjected to injustice, constantly facing war and genocide. Just as all those who create these problems are together, the Kurdish and Palestinian people need to stand against them together. That is why we are talking about a Kurdish-Arab alliance. The Arabs were divided into 22 states and divided the Kurds into 4 parts. It is these forces that suck the blood of the Kurdish and Arab people. That is why the Kurdish and Arab people need to develop their alliance. If such an alliance is created, it can be a big step towards liberation. The problem of the Palestinian people is not a problem that arose just today. It is a social and historical question. That is why our movement took the Palestinian people and their struggle as a basis in its early years. It found them right, took part in their struggle and paid the price. One of the reasons why the international conspiracy against our movement was developed, is the relationship we formed with the Palestinians and Arabs. Since the day it was founded, our movement has been based on establishing relations with Palestinians and Arabs. We agreed with their struggle.

But I would like to make a few points here. The methods of Hamas are not right, and they should be criticized. But this does not justify using Hamas’ wrong methods as a pretext to attack the Palestinian people. As wrong as Hamas’ methods are, attacks against the Palestinian people under this pretext are just as wrong. Like this, the situation will never be solved, it will deepen it. It will even cause new problems in the region. This is very dangerous. Therefore, the Palestinian and Jewish people should consider how they can live as brothers and sisters. They should not insist on a nation state, as the nation state will never solve their problems. In fact, it makes the problems worse day by day. Some people say that the solution for Palestine is a nation state. This is not true. Even those who have nation states in the region still have problems and are displaced from their lands. So this is not the solution. The solution lies in Rêber Apo’s paradigm. The development of the ‘democratic nation’ is the solution. They should take this as a basis. Then they can solve their problems. The last example of the nation state not being a solution is the Armenian-Azeri war. They both have states. But there are big wars and even genocide in their regions. So, this is not a solution. The solution is Rêber Apo’s philosophy, the paradigm he developed for humanity. Everyone should take this as a basis. This is the only way to solve the problems.

The war between the occupation army of the Turkish state and the guerrillas continues. What can you tell us about the war going on in the Medya Defense Zones?

By remembering comrades Rojhat and Erdal, as well as the martyrs of the Asayish in Dêrik and the martyrs of Amed, I would like to once again commemorate all the martyrs of the struggle with gratitude and respect. There is a big war going on between us and the Turkish state right now. The Turkish state is developing many tactics to hide this reality. For example, they never reveal the identity of their dead soldiers. They only announce one or two of them. In addition to this, they constantly make propagandistic statements that we have killed so many guerrillas. They create the perception in society that they have eliminated the guerrillas. Sometimes we announce comrades that martyred, and 10, 20 days later, maybe even a month later, the Turkish state states, that they have recently martyred this comrade within an operation of the intelligence. They try to deceive everyone in this way. They create the perception that they have succeeded, that they have achieved results.

Therefore, they are bombarding all the time and also use weapons that are banned around the world. They load drones with chemical explosives and aim to drop them on the tunnel doors. In this way, they want to seize the tunnels and martyr their friends. Despite all this, they are not getting results. The guerrillas are showing great heroism under the most difficult conditions. I would like to congratulate my comrades from the HPG and YJA Star on this occasion. They are heroes not only of the Kurdish people but also of humanity. Because they defend humanity. They defend human values. If it were not for the KDP, the Turkish state would have lost this war. If the Turkish state still insists on the war, it is entirely with the support of the KDP. The Kurdish people need to understand this very well. The Turkish state, especially the AKP media, is waging a psychological, special warfare. Just as Goebbels deceived people with his propaganda during the Hitler era in Germany, the AKP media is doing the same. Their channels show day and night how they produce weapons and how powerful their technology is. In other words, they are sending the message that the Turkish state is militarily very strong, that it is a world power, that no one can stand in front of Turkey anymore.

They are making dirty propaganda. “The PKK is not a freedom movement, there are foreign states behind it that do not want Turkey to develop and become stronger. They want to prevent the growth of Turkey by helping the PKK. If these foreign powers do not help the PKK, it cannot survive. These states are using the PKK for their interests. The PKK does not want us to uncover Turkey’s mineral resources and put them at the service of the people. If we uncover these mineral resources, the people of Turkey will become very strong, they will stand against everyone in the world. If the people of Turkey are poor, it is because of the PKK. By fighting the PKK, imperialist states prevent us from extracting oil, prevent us from extracting minerals so that Turkey remains poor.” This is how they make propaganda, what they tell the people.

In this way, they want to legitimize the liquidation of the PKK and the genocide against the Kurdish people. This is how they aim to get support from the people of Turkey and the peoples of the world. However, it is America itself that brought the AKP to power. It is America, NATO and some European states that support the execution of the genocide policy in Turkey. With their help, they stay in power and carry out a policy of genocide. All the weapons they use belong to NATO. There is one thing the AKP-MHP are experts in. That is to turn the facts upside down. This is how they deceive everyone. The AKP is now applying the same tactics that Goebbels applied to the people of Germany. That’s why no one knows what the truth is, what lies are. It is waging such a special warfare. This is how it carries out and strengthens its power. Our people and the people of Turkey need to understand this well.

There were negotiations between the KDP and the Turkish state, and also between Iran and the Turkish state. There were attacks by the Turkish state against the Mexmûr [Makhmour] refugee camp and there are daily attacks against South Kurdistan. How do you evaluate the negotiations between the KDP-Turkish state and the Iranian-Turkish state?

The KDP, especially the family of Masoud Barzani, has tied its fate to Turkey. They are completely in the service of the Turkish state. They help it not only in South Kurdistan but everywhere. Also, the KDP is waging a special psychological warfare against the PKK. Militarily, intelligence-wise, in every sense, they are fighting against the PKK by siding with the Turkish state. But even outside South Kurdistan, the KDP wants to cut the ties of the PKK with everyone, isolate it in the world, encircle it, take it over, or liquidate it. For example, some of our friends tell us, “The KDP is more hostile to you than the Turks”. This is true. Barzani is not only helping the Turkish state against us in [the South Kurdish areas of] Metîna, Girê Cudi and Avaşin, and serving the politics of genocide. Our society must demand accountability for this. The policy of the KDP legitimizes everything the Turkish state does against the Kurdish people.

Also, the representative of KNK was assassinated in Hewlêr [Erbil], but until today they have not made a single statement, not condemned, not arrested a single person. But when an action was taken against the Turkish police in Ankara, the KDP immediately condemned the action. This even shows the state of the KDP, who it is on whose side and in whose service. Why did it condemn the Ankara action? That action was not against them, it was an action against the Turkish security forces who are committing genocide against the Kurds. Instead of being pleased, they condemn it. But why don’t they condemn those who martyred Deniz? Why don’t they arrest that murderer? They say: “I am the government, I am in power, I have laws, no one can do anything here.” Indeed, they have established such a power in Hewlêr that no one can move. There are cameras everywhere. The KNK building is under constant surveillance. How can Deniz be murdered there and the KDP doesn’t arrest anyone? Because they also had a hand in this murder. The KDP wants to drag Iraq into the politics they are conducting together with the Turkish state. It is also working for this. The Iraqi representative held talks in Ankara for days. They want to include Iraq in their plans. They are searching for ways to destroy the PKK, and to complete the genocide against the Kurdish people.

Regarding this, I want to warn Iraq. Iraq must not fall for the games of the Barzanis and the Turkish state. They have no interest in these policies. They should demand that Turkey solves the Kurdish problem through democratic means. Iraq’s interests are in this direction. Siding with the Turkish state and the Barzanis and being hostile to the Kurds will cause great harm to Iraq. The Barzanis want to settle in some places and the settlement of the Barzanis means the settlement of the Turkish state. Because the Turkish state and the Barzanis are now acting together in many places, fighting against us. In some places, their forces are 100-150 meters away from each other. Some places were built by the Turks, but when they left in winter, they handed them over to the Barzanis. Now the Turks attacked them again, and they gave them the outposts that the Turks had handed over. So they are acting together. The Turkish state has dominated South Kurdistan in every sense. They have made Behdinan like a province of the Turkish state. The Turkish state has settled in every area. They act according to what the Turkish state wants. In this way, the KDP completely serves the genocide policy of the Turkish state. Everyone should understand it like that.

Is there anything you would like to say at the end?

Our international friends have started a campaign for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo and for the Kurdish people to have a status. The campaign is growing day by day. Now we have to fulfill our part, take part in the campaign and bring it to a conclusion. This is what is asked of our movement and our people. Therefore, everyone in our movement, no matter where they are, no matter what their role is, everyone has to take part in this campaign. It has to carry out all its work and activities in a way that is tied to this campaign. We must act on this basis until we bring this campaign to a conclusion. This is our main work. The main role here belongs to women and young people. I believe that women and young people will spearhead this initiative. They will strengthen the campaign.

Since we are a youth movement, I especially call on young people; you have to take part in this campaign developed by our international friends with everything you have and ensure strong participation in the guerrillas. Because we are a youth movement. Young people should take the revolutionary war against genocide and the special war as a basis. They have to fulfill their duties and responsibilities on this basis. The enemy imposes heroin, prostitution and espionage, and wants to rot society in this way. On the other hand, he is imposing Hizbul-Kontra on society. “If you don’t want prostitution, heroin and spying, you should turn to Hibul-Kontra,” they say. They are conducting this politics. It is up to the youth to frustrate this politics. Young people must raise the struggle against prostitution, spying and heroin. They must know that the politics of the Turkish state in our society, especially among young people, are very dangerous. Young people must both oppose this politics, organize themselves and take part in the revolutionary people’s war.