Xebat Andok, member of the KCK Executive Council, spoke about the anniversary of the global campaign ‘Freedom for Abdullah Öcalan, a Political Solution to the Kurdish Question’ as well as the anniversary of the beginning of the international conspiracy on 9 October 1998.

Andok pointed out: "Again, many forces fighting against the system and demanding freedom, justice, and democracy see Rêber Apo [Abdullah Öcalan] as their leader. In the past, Rêber Apo was a free man only for Kurdish women, but now he is a free man for all women who struggle for freedom."

The Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Ocalan, discussed in a broad manner and exposed the aims of those responsible for the international conspiracy of 9 October 1998, which was directed against him. He made great efforts to ensure that the conspiracy was researched and understood in depth. How do you evaluate the current situation in general?

I greet Rêber Apo with love, respect and longing. Also, I commemorate with gratitude and respect all the martyrs of the revolution, particularly those who gave their lives following the true meaning of the slogan “You cannot darken our sun!”. We reiterate our promise to the martyrs once again; we will definitely continue their path, and we will realize the goal of our martyrs.

As you mentioned, Rêber Apo is the one who analyzed the conspiracy the most, revealed its details, and assessed it in every sense. There are many evaluations of Rêber Apo that show us how to understand the conspiracy well; one can find them both in the prison writings and in the notes that were taken by those who had gone to Imrali. Those who are curious about the details of the conspiracy can read and learn from these evaluations of Rêber Apo. It has been 26 years since the conspiracy. Since then, the conspiracy has been constantly discussed. Why this conspiracy took place, against whom it was carried out, what the conjuncture was, how exactly it took place – all these questions are interconnected.

The conspiracy targeted our leader. Rêber Apo was the leader of the PKK when the conspiracy took place, which means that the conspiracy also targets the PKK. The Kurdish people see Rêber Apo as their leader, which means that the conspiracy also targets the free Kurds in the person of Rêber. Rêber Apo also represents the oppressed peoples. He is waging a socialist struggle based on democratic and communal values. This struggle is seen as hope for humanity. So, undoubtedly, this conspiracy was directed against democratic and communal values, against the ideology of socialism, and against all forces that oppose the system of capitalist modernity in general. All this reveals who the conspiracy was carried out against in a broad framework. Those who developed this conspiracy are the forces of capitalist modernity.

Rêber Apo has called it the great conspiracy of Gladio. Gladio is the core force of NATO – a force that wants to dominate societies. NATO is the military and political power of capitalist modernity. The conspiracy was carried out by the forces of capitalist modernity. In fact, Bulent Ecevit, the Turkish Prime Minister of that period, while evaluating the conspiracy, said, “We don’t understand why they gave Abdullah Ocalan to us.” Those who developed the conspiracy and handed over Rêber Apo to the Turkish state were, of course, the capitalist forces.

But why did the forces of capitalist modernity carry out such a conspiracy? Under which circumstances did this conspiracy take place? After the First World War, the capitalist powers deliberately created the Kurdish question and aimed to intervene in the Middle East through the Kurdish question when the time came. After the 1990s, these forces, led by America, Britain and Israel, wanted to intervene in the Middle East again. The Third World War has been going on in the Middle East ever since. It has been going on in the Middle East, centered in Kurdistan, after the collapse of the Soviet Union almost 35 years ago. When the forces of capitalist modernity saw that Rêber Apo and the PKK would not fit in their system, they decided to liquidate them.

When they intervened in the Middle East, they aimed to prevent those who struggled on behalf of the peoples, on behalf of society, and especially on behalf of the Kurdish people, from benefiting from this new process. Rêber Apo analyzed this period well, recognized the power vacuums, and knew how to utilize them. When it came to a new intervention in the Middle East, capitalist forces had to clear these obstacles out of the way. There were also some Kurds in Kurdistan who cooperated with them. It is the Barzani clan that supports and paves the way for what the forces of capitalist modernity want to do in Kurdistan. For the Kurdish people, this line drawn by the Barzani clan stands for collaboration, betrayal.

When the capitalist powers wanted to intervene in the Middle East, they paved the way for those who would serve their interests. The parliament in southern Kurdistan was also created on this basis, as was the power union there. The union they formed in the so-called South Kurdistan went to America in 1998 and signed the Washington Treaty against the PKK and Rêber Apo. They wanted to design a Kurdistan according to their own desire with this treaty. While we are fighting against Turkey, they also want to redesign this country according to their own desire. When they intervened in the Middle East, they realized that they could not do it if the PKK and Rêber Apo were in a very strong position. That’s why they also intervened in Turkey. What did they do? For example, after the abduction of Rêber Apo in 1999, they immediately took Fethullah Gulen to America. After a while, they paved the way for Erdogan and brought the AKP to power in order to realize the goals they aimed for through the conspiracy. In this way, they made a general intervention. The forces of capitalist modernity saw the PKK and Rêber Apo as an obstacle to their plans in the Middle East, so they developed the international ionspiracy. One of the aims of the conspiracy was the physical destruction of Rêber Apo. It was part of the so-called Greater Middle East Project. The bearers of this project are the forces of capitalist modernity.

Rêber Apo’s stance against the conspiracy is absolutely essential. He showed his difference by taking a stance that no one expected. In fact, Rêber Apo intervened against those who wanted to interfere with him through the conspiracy. How do you evaluate Rêber Apo’s stance?

When we look at it today, we must say that no one expected anything alike. I mean, it is easy to say that now, but considering the conditions at that time, no one knew how it would turn out. Everyone who saw Rêber Apo and the PKK as a hope was the target of the conspiracy. At the beginning, no one knew what to do. Everyone evaluated the conspiracy in their own way. But there were also Rêber Apo’s evaluations. And as you pointed out, they were very different. Both the Kurdish people, including us, the international friends of the Kurdish people, and the enemy were very surprised by these evaluations.

When the conspiracy developed, they put enormous pressure on the Syrian government to force Rêber Apo out of there. They filled the Mediterranean with warships; America put all its weight there. If Rêber Apo had not left Syria, they would have attacked and occupied Syria. Rêber Apo saw this at that time and left Syria, frustrating their plan. In this way, he prevented the conspirators from starting a regional war, invading Syria and paving the way for great suffering in the Middle East. So, Rêber Apo chose to leave Syria.

The conspirators were aiming to deepen the war in the Middle East. This would have happened if Rêber Apo had turned to the mountains, but he did not prefer that either, knowing that the war had reached a certain stage and that it had played his role. He wanted different paths to develop. On this basis, he turned to Europe. Because Europe sees itself as the cradle of democracy, claiming that it defends democratic values, law, and justice. Rêber Apo stated that Europe created this problem and that it was them who developed these massacre policies in Kurdistan. He basically told them: “If you talk about democracy, law, and justice all the time, then let’s take a look at the Kurdish people. Let’s solve this.” In this way, Rêber Apo revealed the true face of Europe. He unmasked them all. This was a different step. One that the capitalist powers didn’t expect to happen.

The forces of capitalist modernity abducted Rêber Apo on February 15, 1999. They wanted to physically destroy him. With his destruction, they aimed to create an endless war between Kurds and Turks. Because it was clear how the PKK and the Kurdish people would react. Our entire movement would have followed comrade Zilan. Because comrade Zilan set an example as early as 1996. She showed what kind of stance PKK militants would take when there was an attack on Rêber Apo. She determined the level of revolutionism, and this was valid for all the fedais and militants of the PKK. On this basis, all members of the party were ready to carry out sacrifices. The Kurdish people, with all their generations, were already on their feet. It was not clear what kind of action they would take. They were going to make the destruction of the leadership the cause of an unending Kurdish-Turkish war. Because Rêber Apo was aware of this, he frustrated this plan with his change of strategy and stance against the conspiracy in order to prevent a war between Kurds and Turks.

The capitalist powers failed here too. They wanted to provoke a regional war and through this occupy the region, but this did not happen. They thought that maybe Rêber Apo would head to the mountains and the war would deepen in this way, but Rêber Apo frustrated their plans and expectations. They wanted the physical destruction of the leadership, and on this basis they wanted to pave the way for a Kurdish-Turkish war. Rêber Apo prevented this goal of the capitalist forces by putting honorable peace on the agenda, especially with the stance he took in Imrali. At that time, Rêber Apo was sentenced to death, but as a result of the stance of the leadership, society, especially the Kurdish people, taking this stance as a basis and a joint struggle, the death penalty was removed from Turkish law in 2002. With the death penalty removed from the constitution, the goals of the conspirators were again not realized. On his own, Rêber Apo dealt with this conspiracy in a broad manner, revealing the aims, goals, and true faces of the conspirators. He struggled and resisted in the line of freedom and frustrated the aims of the conspirators by abolishing the death penalty in 2002.

It is obvious that Rêber Apo put up relentless resistance in Imrali. With his resistance, he developed a whole new paradigm. Rêber Apo describes the process of change in Imrali as a rebirth of him and the Kurdish people. How can this be understood?

As I said, the conspiracy was at a different stage until 2002. Within the first stage of the conspiracy, the physical destruction of the leader was the main goal; the second stage was to ideologically debunk, render meaningless, and neutralize him if he could not be physically destroyed. It wasn’t just about the physical destruction of someone, because there was a leader there, and if he didn’t play his role, if he didn’t lead, if he didn’t become a hope, and if he couldn’t liberate society, he would fall from his position as a leader. That is why they wanted to put Rêber Apo in such a situation under such conditions in Imrali. When he entered Imrali, he was the leader of a party, a people, but when we look at Imrali now, is he only the leader of the PKK, only the leader of the Kurdish people? No. When we look at it today, many peoples have recognized Rêber Apo and see him as their leader. Again, many forces fighting against the system and demanding freedom, justice, and democracy see Rêber Apo as their leader. In the past, Rêber Apo was a free man only for Kurdish women, but now he is a free man for all women who struggle for freedom. This means that the ideological stance of Rêber Apo in Imrali was deepened and broadened so much that it transcended the borders of the PKK and Kurdistan and became universal. This happened with a paradigm shift.

The biggest achievement in Imrali is the development of the democratic, ecological, and women’s libertarian paradigm by Rêber Apo. All those who struggle for democracy, freedom, free coexistence, and against the male-dominated system can achieve their goals with this paradigm. Until the new paradigm, the goals and objectives of the oppressed forces were correct, but their practices were not exactly in line with their goals. In other words, the paths and methods they preferred and took as a basis did not fully serve their goals. They strived for democracy, freedom, justice, and free coexistence; they were fighting for it, but they were not achieving any results. This is where the importance of the new paradigm emerges. The new paradigm determines the way and method according to the liberation of the oppressed. It creates a way and method outside the state. The solution to this is democratic autonomy. Society is multi-colored. Each color must be autonomous. No color should dominate over other colors. Rêber Apo presented such a paradigm to all the oppressed and showed them the ways and methods to achieve their goals. The oppressed peoples saw their salvation in this paradigm.

What kind of situation, precisely the rebirth described, has arisen through Rêber Apo’s efforts in Imrali? What is the significance, what is the extent of this process?

For example, thousands of people have been imprisoned in Kurdistan and Turkey. Rêber Apo says that if he had not come to Imrali, he would not have been able to achieve this deepening. One might wonder if it is the prison or the personality of Rêber Apo. If the prison had deepened, liberated, and empowered everyone like this, then everyone who was imprisoned would have deepened, empowered, liberated, and solved the problems of society. The trick is not in being in prison; the trick is in the personality of Rêber Apo. He is the same inside as he was outside. The difference in the prison is that outside, he was carrying out all the practical works of the PKK; he was following everything. Rêber Apo took care of all the cadres’ problems. He was preparing thousands of cadres. Rêber Apo was carrying out social and ideological work. Therefore, the opportunity to realize mental depth in the prison was greater for him than outside.

Obviously, when you are in the enemy’s house and don’t take a strong stance, the enemy will destroy you. That is to say, Rêber Apo took such a strong stance that it turned the enemy’s headquarters into a place that deepened and liberated himself and strengthened the PKK, women, and society. Rêber Apo has been under great attack since he was put in Imrali. He is frustrating these attacks with his resistance. Under these attacks, he created the new paradigm. Rêber Apo wrote a lot of prison writings and put forward the new paradigm. When he wrote the Sociology of Freedom, they put him in solitary confinement and increased the pressure even more. They didn’t give him pens or notebooks; they didn’t give him books at all. He prepared most of the prison writings under such difficult conditions. Tuncer Kilinc, the spokesperson of the Turkish National Security Council (MGK), said about Rêber Apo that they were creating an environment in which he would gradually deaden and die off, bit by bit, until he and his importance and influence would disappear. They wanted to make even breathing torture for him. But Rêber Apo managed to turn all this around and even use it to his advantage.

That is why his struggle in Imrali is so historic, great, and successful. When great people do great things, their enemies launch great attacks. But what matters is the result. Rêber Apo enlightened the Kurdish people with his struggle; the PKK, which the enemy back then gave a life expectancy of six months, still exists today, but those who gave it this life expectancy have disappeared. Today the PKK is much stronger than in the past. The Kurdish people did not know what to do when the conspiracy was launched. They probably thought that our leader would be destroyed and that they would be destroyed like in the past. But it didn’t happen like that. The struggle for freedom and existence today is being waged not only in northern but in all four parts of Kurdistan. The whole world recognizes Kurds today; millions of people say “Jin Jiyan Azadi.” Kurdish, which was defined as an ‘unknown language’ by the Turkish state, is now being used all over the world. This reality is in front of the eyes of everyone.

During the Imrali process, Rêber Apo said that there would be no more life and war as before. What needs to be done in order to correctly use and understand the ways and methods developed by Rêber Apo to nullify the conspiracy and to wage a correct struggle?

When we look at the conspiracy from the perspective of Rêber Apo, the conspiracy has been nullified. For example, like I said, the first main aim of the conspiracy carried out by capitalist modernity was physical destruction; they failed. Their second aim was to render Rêber Apo ideologically meaningless, but instead he deepened his ideological stance in Imrali and became a universal leader. Rêber Apo also frustrated this plan. That is why we say that the conspiracy was destroyed in the person of Rêber Apo. That is why they are afraid of Rêber Apo. They are already unable to reduce his influence; even though he is in their hands and under the most intense pressure, he still does not compromise his stance. The conspiratorial forces must be thinking about how Rêber Apo was when he was brought to Imrali and how he is now. The whole world sees Rêber Apo as a leader. Just recently, 69 Nobel laureates were demanding Rêber Apo’s physical freedom.

For 43 months there has been no news from Rêber Apo. This conspiracy proves that everything they had planned for Rêber Apo has been nullified. This is the success of Rêber Apo. Undoubtedly, there was the struggle of our people, our movement, and our international friends, but this was also due most essentially to the resistance stance of Rêber Apo. If Rêber Apo had not taken such a stance, the struggle would not have grown this much. They thought that with the liquidation of the leadership, the PKK and the free Kurds would be liquidated, and the Kurds would be eradicated. What does this situation show us? It means that success can be achieved with the stance of Rêber Apo against the international conspiracy. In other words, Rêber Apo succeeded against the conspiracy. If we also want to succeed, we will have to take the stance and style of Rêber Apo as a basis. The conspirators currently have the captivity and physical imprisonment of Rêber Apo. Other than that, they have not achieved their goals.

Who now has a role to play? The role of ensuring the physical freedom of Rêber Apo falls to the freedom movement, the Kurdish people, all women, and all oppressed societies. The fact that the conspirators are still trying to achieve their goals is not because of the stance of Rêber Apo, but because of the stance outside. There are deficiencies in the external struggle. The struggle to ensure the physical freedom of Rêber Apo and to frustrate the conspirators is not strong enough. There is no doubt that there is a strong struggle, but this result has not yet emerged. As I said, we can only achieve this result with the style of Rêber Apo. So how was Rêber Apo able to take such a strong stance against the conspirators? He mentions it in his prison writings. In fact, Rêber Apo achieved this in two ways: “First, I was with my society, because man is a social being. There can be no personal freedom. On this basis, I was going to unite my fate with the Kurdish people and Kurdistan.” This is very important.

Capitalist modernity is based on making people selfish. They have implemented this reality in such a way that people forget their mother, father, family, or society. It eliminates social identity, renders it meaningless, and leaves the personality. But Rêber Apo states that man is a social being. He states that the liberation of the individual can only be achieved through the liberation of society, and he fights against the system of capitalist modernity in a social way. Secondly, man is a developing being. This change-transformation also takes place in the mentality. In Imrali, Rêber Apo made himself the truth; he made himself the representation of right thinking. In short, he represents the truth. This means that if we act in the same way, we can achieve success.

A genocide decision has been taken against the Kurdish people. How can an individual in society accept this? Free Kurds do not accept the individualistic life offered by capitalist modernity; they have to embrace society. As such, their stance in life also changes. At the same time, the free Kurd also has to see the lie of a life offered by capitalist modernity. It is about seeing the true life and pursuing it. If the people become conscious, organized, and have the power to act on this basis, then this struggle against the international conspiracy will become stronger, the embrace of Rêber Apo will increase, the struggle based on his physical freedom will grow even more, and the capitalist powers will weaken in this way. In this sense, the current struggle against the conspiracy is incomplete; when it increases, people’s stance changes. This is what we need today.

Of course, we are much stronger than in the past. For example, today the number of those who take Rêber Apo as their basis has increased, the global campaign aiming for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo is being embraced all over the world, the Kurdish people are now more conscious and stronger, and the true face of the forces of capitalist modernity, the occupying forces, the collaborator-traitor Kurds has been exposed. If we wage a struggle outside the country that is equal to the stance of Rêber Apo, the international conspiracy will be defeated by us, just as it was defeated by Rêber Apo, and the conspiracy will be defeated in every sense. The hopes of the ruling powers to succeed will also be completely destroyed.