In the second part of this interview, Cemil Bayik, co-chair of the KCK Executive Council, said that "Turkey is weaker than ever before, despite showing itself as a winner and in control of the new situation."

Bayik analyzed the situation in Syria and said: "Turkey did not succeed in Syria. Nor would anyone hand Syria over to them. It was other forces that brought HTS to power. A different plan was executed here. HTS did not come to power by its own power; some people brought it to power, and it was not Turkey. A new Syria is being built, and it is based on protecting Israel and the global capital. What does Israel represent? It represents global capital; it represents the capitalist system. Protecting Israel does not only mean protecting Israel; it also means protecting the system of capitalist modernity."

The first part of this interview can be read here.

The Turkish state acts according to the language of war; currently they are attacking Rojava, North and East Syria, on a daily basis. They send all kinds of gangs and mercenaries against Rojava and want to push HTS to attack the Kurds. At the same time, their policy of forcibly appointing trustees to municipalities in North Kurdistan and Turkey is being continued. Where will this situation lead?

They are using a language of insult. They are insulting Rêber Apo [Abdullah Öcalan], the PKK, and the Kurdish people. They are aware that the Kurdish question will determine the fate of everyone, including their own. Rêber Apo wants to play a historic role, and they are trying to prevent this. That is why they are making so many such steps at the same time. In practice, they are conducting their trustee politics, arresting Kurds, punishing them, murdering them, continuing the war, and intervening in other parts of Kurdistan, and they are daily bombing Rojava. They are doing all this to break the hope and faith of the people and the fighters in Rêber Apo and to create doubt. They want to create the perception that Rêber Apo is weak and has no power and influence; therefore, the Turkish state does exactly the opposite of what Rêber Apo is striving for. By doing so, they want to prevent Rêber Apo from playing his historical role and prevent Kurds from making great gains.

Right now, they are waging a war against Rojava under the name of the ‘Syrian National Army’ (SNA). SNA is just a name; it has nothing to do with Syria. They brought all these gangs and mercenaries from Chechnya, Kyrgyzstan, Libya, and further-like countries. Among them, there are Turkish special forces, officers, and generals. These are running this war. They are fighting under the name of SNA to deceive everyone. The Turkish state is an expert in deception. The war being waged in Qereqozakh and Tishrin is not a war waged by organizations of Syria; it is the Turkish state itself. That is something that always needs to be underlined. Information reached us that some Turkish special forces were wounded and killed in that war. There are even officers among the wounded and dead. The Turkish state thinks that they are taking great steps in Syria, but this is also simply a great deception. Maybe they are propagandizing this, as if they have really put their weight in Syria, but this is not true. Turkey fell into a big trap. They made Turkey and Erdoğan do what they wanted to do. They used Erdoğan in the conflict with Hamas and in the Syrian issue. In this way they created problems between Turkey and the Arabs. Turkey did not succeed in Syria. Nor would anyone hand Syria over to them. It was other forces that brought HTS to power. A different plan was executed here. HTS did not come to power by its own power; some people brought it to power, and it was not Turkey. A new Syria is being built, and it is based on protecting Israel and the global capital. What does Israel represent? It represents global capital; it represents the capitalist system. Protecting Israel does not only mean protecting Israel; it also means protecting the system of capitalist modernity. The system did not destroy the Baath regime so that Erdoğan could come and sit down, and Syria would be at the service of the Turkish state. This propaganda of the Turkish state is just to give morale to its base. This is not true; there is a very serious situation for Turkey.

AKP’s goal is to strengthen its base. It fell to the position of the second party in Turkey and now wants to get out of that position. It wants to strengthen its power once again, to strike a blow to the autonomous system in North and East Syria through the SNA, and to put its weight in Syria with the HTS. It aims to drive both the HTS and the SNA against the Kurdish, Assyrian, Armenian, and Arab people. They are doing this so that there will be no democratic Syria and that instead the country will be completely at their service. The Turkish state carries out its activities on this basis, but this is just a dream; no one will accept such a thing; it is not possible. Everyone knows about the ‘Abraham Accords’; this alliance is developing in the Middle East. Maybe the role of the Turkish state is not completely over, but it does not have the same role as before. Everyone says that Iran has suffered a big blow. It is true, maybe some balances have been in favor of Turkey, but Turkey has also suffered a big blow. It is in NATO, and it has relations with the EU; on this basis, they were running their power in the Middle East. It was getting support from those powers, but now it has been left out of the new plans.

For example, there was a meeting in Italy about Syria, and they didn’t even invite Turkey. The meeting was all about what kind of Syria would be established, and they left Turkey out. That was a clear message to the Turkish state. At the moment, the Turkish state is trying to see what it can do to gain some economic opportunities in Syria. They want to eliminate the Autonomous Administration if possible and strengthen their position in order to stay in Syria. In order not to lose Syria completely, they are paying diplomatic visits to many countries, from all Arab countries to America and England. In this way, they want to gain weight in Syria. And now the war in the Middle East has reached Iraq, Kurdistan, Iran, and Turkey. Not to forget, there is also the Cyprus issue. One has to think about why, for example, they forcibly appointed a trustee to the Akdeniz municipality. That is also linked to the Cyprus issue; they want to take measures. They are working on this basis. They think they will get results, but this is not possible.

Representatives of the Turkish state, both the foreign ministry and Erdoğan, as well as further Turkish officials, stated that they have set conditions regarding North and East Syria. What do you say? Would it even be possible to implement what the Turkish state is demanding?

Turkey is waging psychological warfare. They are trying to create the perception that North and East Syria will be completely eliminated in a short period of time. They want everyone to surrender to this. If they find the opportunity, without a doubt they will occupy that region. They are conducting their diplomacy for this and want to remove obstacles in front of this goal. They are making threat after threat. Every day the Turkish media say, “We will invade either today or tomorrow.” They are creating such pressure on North and East Syria. On the other hand, they want to put HTS into action. And they want to remove NATO’s obstacles and convince the Arab states to follow them. It is doing everything it can to destroy what has been built up in North and East Syria.

One has to highlight that the position of North and East Syria is stronger than ever before. For the Druze, for the Alawites, for those who are against HTS, North and East Syria is an alternative, even for the coalition forces. Everyone who looks at HTS with suspicion can hold on to North and East Syria. That is why the position of North and East Syria is stronger than ever before. There is a great struggle going on there right now. Therefore, I want to take this opportunity to send my greetings and respect to the resistance fighters and the people of Rojava. The fighters and the people are standing together against the attacks of the Turkish state, and they are fighting heroically. The people are going to Tishrin, resisting there for days, risking everything, even death. They are putting up a very historic struggle.

The Turkish state planned to go from Manbij and until Deir ez-Zor and even capture Damascus, but they hit a wall in Qereqozakh and Tishrin. They are no longer in a position to take a step. They are getting hit every day. They may adopt new tactics, but as long as the Turkish state continues like this, it will be dealt a major blow, and its plans for Syria will be completely frustrated. If their plans fail, Erdoğan will not be able to stay in power. That is why they will want to develop new tactics. Our people and the fighters there must prepare accordingly. The Turkish state is having great difficulties going against this struggle. It is not possible for them to achieve anything, so they are waging psychological warfare. Because so far they have always achieved results with psychological and special warfare policies. They scared everyone and got results this way. Now they are using this tactic again, but they have realized that these tactics won’t work here. Therefore, they may develop new tactics, and our people and the fighters fighting there must be very careful.

In 2014, the Turkish state trained and armed ISIS and had them attack the Kurds. Today, evaluations indicate that the Turkish state aims to create a conflict between HTS and the Kurds in order for its forces to come to power in Syria. Is such a scenario possible?

What is the Turkish state putting forward? The propaganda is that the PKK should get out of there, that all the outsiders should leave, and that the SDF should disband and dissolve itself. They want HTS to join these conditions and have mobilized the SNA on this basis. But those in the SNA are not the Syrian people. Maybe there are a few among them, but mostly they come from different countries. Their salaries and needs are met by the Turkish state. While the people of Turkey live in hunger, the Turkish state does not give anything to the people, saying that it doesn’t have the means, but it gives everything to the SNA mercenaries. The peoples of Turkey need to discuss this. They should point out that they are paying taxes while experiencing financial difficulties. They should ask the state why it uses the means for these gangs and mercenaries, why it cuts their sustenance and gives it to them. We see that Erdoğan utilizes the fact that nobody publicly discusses this and questions the state. The Turkish state hides what it does. That’s why they point to other topics and say that PKK members and all foreigners should leave the country, while almost all of its SNA fighters are foreigners. There are even many foreigners in HTS. They even have specific battalions and make some non-Syrian commanders citizens. As for those who fought and gave their lives for Syria, they want to force them out.

There is also a serious attack on the project of ‘Democratic Nation’. Before the Syrian war started, Abdullah Ocalan stated that the Kurdish and Arab alliance would turn into a strategic alliance. Great steps were taken for this, and it took shape in North and East Syria. The Turkish state wants to deal a blow to the project of the ‘Democratic Nation’. How do you assess this danger? What is your call or warning? What attitude should the Kurdish people, the Arab, Assyrian, Armenian, and Circassian people, and all the components of North and East Syria take?

The system of democratic nation has developed in North and East Syria. The women’s movement has developed, and the peoples in North and East Syria are living this reality. It is not possible for the Turkish state to achieve its goal of destroying this system, but they cannot realize this because the peoples of North and East Syria will not allow this. And they express this clearly. They protect their values and revolutionary achievements. The issue there is not only the issue of the Kurds or Kurdish gains; the issue concerns all of North and East Syria. It is about all the peoples living there, their democratic nation, and the gains the peoples have achieved. The Turkish state is consciously putting the Kurds and their gains forward. They are doing this to make other peoples feel excluded. I guess everyone is aware of these games by the Turkish state. The Turkish state wants to put the peoples against each other and make them enemies. It aims to create a war between them. They are carrying out such dirty politics. They want to realize their Neo-Ottoman dreams by causing a war between the peoples and isolating the Kurds. But the Kurds and the other peoples of the region are aware of this. That is why the Turkish state remains unsuccessful with its policy.