In a comprehensive interview, Sabri Ok, member of the KCK Executive Council, talked about the two primary goals of the Kurdish freedom movement for the year 2025: achieving the physical freedom of the Kurdish people's leader, Abdullah Öcalan, and the achievement of Kurdish unity. 

On December 28, a delegation of the DEM party went to Imrali and held a meeting with the Kurdish people's leader Abdullah Öcalan. In what context did the meeting take place, and how should it be assessed?

I would like to salute Rêber Apo [Abdullah Öcalan] on the New Year and send my greetings and respect to him. We are very well aware that in 2024 there was a total isolation and great pressure on Rêber Apo in Imrali. But we also know that Rêber Apo put up a great resistance against it. At the same time as Rêber Apo is being pressured and tortured in Imrali, the Turkish state is carrying out a concept of liquidation and annihilation against our movement. They attack both the Kurdish people and our movement by mobilizing all the means at their disposal. Erdoğan wants to liquidate our movement, eliminate Rêber Apo, and take his place in history as the conductor of countless massacres. Looking at the year 2024, one can easily see that they mobilized all their means and forces. They were hoping that they would successfully conclude their concept within this year. But despite the enemy’s brutal attacks against our people and against the Kurdish freedom guerrillas, including the use of chemical weapons, they failed to achieve results.

The guerrillas resisted in all areas, following the lead of comrades Asya and Rojger, and did not take a single step back. This created both a hope and a belief in the Kurdish people. The Turkish state is not only a NATO member state but also has its second-biggest army; this should not be underestimated. There is no other force that has the power to resist the Turkish state for such a long period as the PKK and the Kurdish freedom guerrillas do. If it were not for the Turkish state, we would have already achieved a much bigger success. Also, the other way round, without the PKK’s stance, struggle, and paradigm, the Turkish state would have succeeded in concluding its genocidal plans long ago. That is why a very heavy war has been waged for years. And again in 2024, the enemy was not able to achieve any results, as the pressure and torture against Rêber Apo in Imrali did not lead to any results either.

Our people have constantly been on their feet. Especially within the scope of the global campaign under the name of ‘Freedom for Abdullah Ocalan, a Political Solution to the Kurdish Question’, women, youth, academics, intellectuals, politicians, and socialists from many countries, pioneered by the international friends of the Kurdish people, took a serious stance and struggled. They created a serious agenda. When Rêber Apo’s paradigm gradually started to be understood around the world, its impact increased significantly, and the participation from all around the world in the struggle within the framework of the global freedom campaign increased significantly. In 2024, this struggle was very important. It has left a big mark on the past year and is still continuing. One of the results of the struggle in 2024 was that it created hesitation and fear within the enemy. Their belief that they would succeed was broken, and they realized that they could no longer achieve results. Our people have constantly been on their feet in Rojava, in northern and southern Kurdistan, as well as in Europe. Wherever there are Kurds, they have stood up against the attacks. Despite all the operations, genocidal attacks, and oppression, our people did not step back and continued their struggle.

Currently, there are thousands of Kurdish politicians, patriots, and PKK cadres in prisons in Turkey and Kurdistan. No matter how many they arrest and imprison, new ones are coming, and the struggle continues with new synergy, willpower, and belief. The Kurdish people have decades of experience and have paid a heavy price, but they still continue their struggle with conviction. This has prevented the Turkish state from achieving its goal and created an insurmountable obstacle in front of the genocidal concept. Because of this, the Turkish state had to take a step back and reconsider many things. There have also been very important developments in the Middle East. The Turkish state realized that a change was taking place in the Middle East and that nothing would be the same anymore. Especially after the Israeli war against Palestine, Hamas, and Hezbollah, and finally the defeat of the regime in Syria, the Turkish state started to think about how this would affect itself. The Kurdish question is very dynamic, has a strong influence on many things, and always carries a strong meaning. This was going to weigh more heavily on the Turkish state than ever before. The developments in the Middle East surrounding Turkey have put pressure on the country, which is constantly increasing. All of these need to be taken into consideration when looking at the meeting that has taken place.

The delegation of the DEM party to Imrali consisted of Sirri Sureyya Onder, Turkey’s parliament deputy speaker, and Pervin Buldan, member of the Grand National Assembly. They visited Rêber Apo at just such a time. That is important and is very meaningful in itself.

Today, not only Turkey, the Kurdish people, and our movement, but everyone is discussing this visit. Everyone wants to understand it, and everyone tries to interpret it in their own way. The meeting of the DEM party’s delegation with Rêber Apo has filled the entire agenda of Turkey. Also, in the international arena, politicians and intellectuals are discussing this. How can we label what is going on? Indeed, what is going on? Where is all of this heading to? Those are questions that need to be evaluated later. One has to point out that since 1993, Rêber Apo has been aiming for the democratization of Turkey and a political, democratic, and dialogue-based solution to the Kurdish question. For this, he sacrificed a lot, researched a lot, and developed many projects. As is known, he therefore declared a ceasefire six or seven times. He wanted the solution process to develop during the Turgut Ozal period and afterward as well. Unfortunately, all these efforts and searches of Rêber Apo were ignored by the occupation mentality in the Turkish state that even denied the existence of the Kurdish people. Today, the war has worsened, and the reason for this is the Turkish state. The pro-war, chauvinist, and fascist forces prevail in the Turkish state. The state was founded based on them, based on the denial and annihilation of the Kurdish people. They prevented Rêber Apo’s efforts from reaching their goal. And now again, some discussions are going on, but no one is able to give this situation a name, whether it is a new form of a process or not. It is not even clear in what format the talks with Rêber Apo are being held. What is important here is that, for years, Rêber Apo has seen himself responsible for the future of the Kurdish people and the society in Turkey. He insisted on a democratic solution to the question and always pointed out that he was looking for an interlocutor.

Today, talks are being held with Rêber Apo, and the messages given by him in these talks are crucial and historical. They are meaningful for the future of Turkey and the Kurdish people. He pointed out that everyone has a role to play in this. Rêber Apo has been saying for years that he is ready to take responsibility for the democratization of Turkey and the solution to the Kurdish question. He has already stated what needs to be done for this. The important thing is for everyone to handle his messages correctly and fulfill their responsibilities. The leadership of our movement, the co-presidency of the KCK Executive Council, have given a statement quite recently in this regard. The position of our movement and our people is clear, without a doubt; for us, the interlocutor is always Rêber Apo. Of course, the struggle for Rêber Apo to fulfill his historical role in a more comfortable and better way will always be increased. This is important.

Another issue is not to be complacent. Unrealistic and exaggerated hopes are not right either. We must also believe in our power. If we hadn’t done this so far, the Turkish state would not have allowed a delegation to go to Imrali. The fact that they allowed the delegation showed that the Turkish state had problems; they could not achieve their goals because our struggle had increased even more, and so the Turkish state has become helpless. The conclusion to draw from this is that the bigger the struggle everywhere and at any time, without becoming complacent and by utilizing the existing opportunities in the most effective way, the results will be even more significant, and Rêber Apo will be able to play his role in a better way.

After the meeting with peoples leader Abdullah Öcalan, there have been many discussions on both the opposition and the government side. How do you read these discussions and statements regarding the solving of the Kurdish question? And how do you assess the responsibility of Turkish intellectuals and artists in all of this?

The Turkish state, which is based on the denial and annihilation of the Kurdish people, needs to draw a conclusion from the last 50 years of war. Insisting on the same mentality means the continuation of the same process. No solution can come out of this. If a positive and correct process is to be initiated, there are some necessary steps to be taken. The mentality that denies the Kurdish people must be abandoned. Denying the existence and rights of the Kurdish people and at the same time talking about some form of solution is not possible. The cost of that mentality has been very heavy, especially to the society and people of Turkey. Tens of thousands of people lost their lives in this 50-year war, and these people were not only guerrillas, and Kurdish people. Tens of thousands of Turkish soldiers also died. Again, the Kurdish people suffered enormously during this period. Thousands of villages were burned and evacuated. Millions of people were forcibly displaced from their lands by the state, and the state did everything to make the people step back.

Today, Turkey’s economy and politics are being discussed. The talk is about unemployment, hunger, and poverty, which are all caused by the war. A few days ago, a government official announced that 3 trillion dollars had been spent on this war. If these 3 trillion dollars had been spent on raising the economic, educational, or health standards of Turkish society, the situation in Turkey would be very different today. Unfortunately, the people of Turkey seem like they do not know why they are in this situation. It is that fascist mentality that brought them there. If they insist on it, there will be no change. The Turkish state must abandon its mentality of denial and extermination. It is not only Turkish society that has sensitivities, also the Kurdish people also have sensitivities. It is not possible to do something unilaterally, according to their own needs, by looking down on them, by rejecting them. They must also respect the Kurdish people, especially the stance and efforts of Rêber Apo. If this historical issue is to be resolved, these must be taken into consideration.

Kurdish and Turkish intellectuals, academics, and their institutions have to play a role in this. They should have something to say and take a stance in this process. They should not ignore the facts and reality. They must say the necessary things and take the necessary steps. They must influence the agenda, warn society, and put pressure on the state. They must also play a role in building a democratic and just life. Academics and intellectuals should know the reality of the war, the depth and gravity of the problem. Accordingly, the dialectics of how to democratize Turkey and solve the Kurdish question should be best conveyed to the peoples of Turkey and the Kurdish people. They must also have the necessary talks with the Turkish state. This period makes it imperative for intellectuals, academics, and institutions to play their role.

As I pointed out, currently it is not possible to label the ongoing situation. We do not know where the developments will go to. The only thing that is clear to us is that whatever Rêber Apo says, whatever stance he takes, he has thought it through comprehensively and evaluated it from all angles. Accordingly, he is trying to develop something. This is the situation from Rêber Apo’s point of view. We do not know about the Turkish state’s approach, or how responsibly it will act. It is still planning how to liquidate the movement, how to strike a blow, and how to achieve results. If they continue with such a mindset, I say it once again; they will never be able to break the will of the PKK and the Kurdish people; they will never get results. But if they evaluate the events of the past year well, if they see the developments in the Middle East and their effects on Turkey, and take according steps, they can get results. If they do not do this, the Kurdish people will not only continue but also much more increase their resistance. As the co-presidency of the KCK Executive Council stated in its statement, Rêber Apo is our will. Everything he says is valid for us. As I said, we must never become complacent; our primary goal is the physical freedom of Rêber Apo. Based on this we will strengthen our struggle.

What would you like to tell people entering the new year?

The physical liberation of Rêber Apo and the struggle for this are crucial. Since the beginning of the global freedom campaign, a great effort has been made under the leadership of women, the youth, and the international friends of the Kurdish people. It is necessary to make this more organized, stronger, and with greater conviction. Every opportunity must be utilized well. Rêber Apo’s physical freedom must be achieved in 2025. This is our primary goal and hope for 2025. The second, as I have mentioned, is the unity of the Kurdish people. Everyone should see themselves responsible for this, and so do we. After one hundred years, there are positive developments for the Kurdish people, and we must utilize this situation and take serious steps. For this, no one should ever become complacent. The more we struggle, the more we resist, the more organized we are, the more results we will achieve. I am convinced that this is how we will struggle and get results in 2025.