Besê Hozat, co-chair of the KCK Executive Council, spoke about the result of the local elections and the recent political developments.

The first part of this interview can be read here

The municipal elections in Turkey and Northern Kurdistan had a strong effect on the policies of the current government in Turkey. The policies of the CHP, after it gained first-party status, seem to have changed. What are your evaluations on this subject?

As is known, after the general elections and the municipal elections, the CHP conducted a somewhat critical opposition process. When we entered the phase of the municipal election, it increased the dosage of criticism against the government. It tried to carry out radical opposition within the system, and through this, it achieved some serious results. It adopted a policy that also appealed to the Kurds. It tried to pursue a policy that criticizes and rejects polarization and encompasses society in Turkey, including the Kurds. They also went to urban reconciliation with the DEM Party in Turkish cities and held talks. This had many benefits. So much so that the CHP came out as the first party in the elections of March 31st. The government followed up on this development. I mean, particularly in Wan, after it tried to implement the trustee policy again, it saw the results of this policy very clearly. Against the attempt to implement the trustee policy once again, the democratic forces of Turkey, the opposition within the system, and the CHP took the lead. They stood by the Kurds in Wan. They took a stand against the trustee policy. This frightened the fascist government because they realized that should the democratic forces of Turkey act jointly with the Kurds, should they wage a joint struggle against this government, should the CHP and the opposition within the system take a stand against the policies that marginalize, criminalize, and demonize the Kurds, that this government will not be able to survive for another month or two.

They have seen this very clearly in Wan. So now, the AKP has made a tactical maneuver. It did not change its policy, but it took a tactical step in order to neutralize the CHP and stop them from further opposing the government. Another aim is to somehow disintegrate the various opposition forces in Turkey. To break the unity of the Kurdish and Turkish forces, it is taking steps to appeal to the liberal opposition circles close to the CHP in ways that will not benefit the Kurds. In other words, they are taking tactical steps that satisfy everyone except the Kurds. The release of the generals is but one example of this. In meeting with Ozgur Ozel, or maybe releasing some of the Gezi prisoners, this is what they are aiming at. They are doing so in order to completely neutralize the opposition within the system and eliminate the power of the united opposition. In this way, the government wants the Kurds to be isolated so they can continue their genocidal policies, attacks, and operations in full swing without having to fear any backlash. Until this happens, they seek to buy some time to recover economically and politically. Officially, there are four years until the next general elections. Now the AKP is trying to promote the idea of a new constitution to deceive society and to keep the opposition busy. Like this, they want to go to the general elections. The government is taking some tactical steps now, always keeping an eye on the poll scores for the next elections.

With the AKP’s loss in the municipal elections and the loss of this fascist genocidal power called the ‘People’s Alliance’, they are experiencing problems internally too. There is serious turmoil and a very serious power struggle within the AKP base, as well as within the MHP and their alliance. In other words, this fascist AKP-MHP fascist government is a mafia state; the identity and characteristics of the Turkish state are the identity and characteristics of the MHP. If one had to name a party that most accurately describes the Turkish state, it would be the MHP. The MHP is the Turkish state itself. In fact, the MHP is not a political party; it is part of the structure of NATO’s Gladio. There was never an end to this project. On the contrary, it only grew and deepened. Now, this Gladio has formed an alliance with the AKP. It is still in power and is ruling Turkey. Today Gladio – a contra force, a gang, a mafia, or whatever it may be called – rules Turkey. The discussions within the People’s Alliance right now, from the murder of Sinan Ateş to the incident of Ayhan Bora Kaplan to the detentions in the Ankara Police Department, are all connected to each other. It is the conflict of mafias and gang groups within the gang state itself. It is a clash of power. Who liquidated Sinan Ateş? It was the MHP itself that liquidated him. Devlet Bahçeli gave the instructions. Sinan Ateş was a more oppositional figure within the MHP. He criticized some of its policies and knew all the dirty crimes and deeds of the MHP. He knew everything; he was kind of the black box. As he started objecting and criticizing, they saw this as a danger. This had an impact on the MHP’s base. Who is Ayhan Bora Kaplan? He is also a member of this MHP gang, particularly Suleyman Soylu’s gang. The MHP has taken over the entire police force in Turkey. It has taken over the gendarmerie, and it is already seriously organized in the army. It has organized itself in the judiciary. The cadres of the MHP are currently ruling Turkey; they infiltrated the AKP and dragged it to the line of the MHP. There is currently a conflict between mafias and gangs within the state. The conflict between mafias in Ankara is the conflict between the Suleyman Soylu gang and the Yerlikaya gang. It is a fight between the gang-mafia state created by Gladio. It is a fight for power. The state that has come to this situation is a state that was founded on Kurdish denial, extermination, and genocide policies. It has constantly produced gangs within itself. Mafias and gangs were positioned at the most strategic places in this state. And they played a decisive role in determining the policies of this state. The state has never deviated from the policies of the Committee of Union and Progress. The AKP-MHP government has polluted this state. It is a source of evil. If this source of evil, the Turkish state, were to disappear, perhaps half of the evil in the world would be wiped out. It is a scourge for the peoples. It is conducting an expansionist, occupying policy on the peoples in the region. It distributes evil, gangs, and war everywhere. It is such a state. That is what the AKP-MHP has turned this state into. What else could be expected of such a government with such a mentality?

In this regard, I criticize the following: There were some actors in democratic politics, some Kurds, who had expectations. There were some who were really expecting that the government would get into a process of softening and changing. It was as if they were saying, “Erdoğan said there is a need for a softening process, so we will enter a softening process.” Some even expected that they would release all the political prisoners and a new solution process could start. That they would end the isolation in Imrali and end the war. There were some people who had such illusions. After all that has happened, with the genocide policies that this government has been implementing for years and the situation it is in now, it is obvious what kind of games, deceptions, and tricks it is after in order to save its power. In relation to those who are caught up in such illusions, I swear to God, one is left puzzled about whether to understand this as good intentions, whether to call it naivety, whether to call it ideological political blindness, whether to call it ignorance, or what to call it. For example, some people still say that Erdoğan will solve this problem. Erdoğan is the cause of this problem. He is the man at the head of genocide policies. He is equal to Bahçeli. All Erdoğan cares about is keeping his power alive. There is nothing he will not do in order to keep his power. He has already sold everything for this. He has even sold his friends, the people he formed a party with. There is nothing he hasn’t sold. This man has abused the phase of dialog as part of his special war process. He needed it to take over the state and establish total control over it. He wanted to deceive Turkish society and the Kurdish people. There was never a solution process. There has always only been a process of special war. This has been discussed in recent years, and the facts in this regard have been revealed. It is really inconceivable to still be caught up in illusions. I criticize those people who still did not let go of their illusions very seriously. I seriously criticize anyone who still has expectations from Erdoğan. Let’s not put people under false expectations. Let’s not break the will of the people to struggle by putting them under false expectations.

The belief that Erdoğan will solve the Kurdish question is really a deceptive one. We need to see this. His only aim is to survive and maintain his power. How long he can hold on is another topic. This fascist government is in the weakest period of its 22 years in power. It is in the process of collapsing. This is the reason for all this ‘softening’ rhetoric. It had to develop this discourse because it is in a very difficult situation, it is in a deadlock. Therefore, it was analyzed that it must break the influence of the opposition and weaken the will of resistance in society by creating false expectations. It also realized that the support of only the MHP was no longer enough, so now it is trying to influence different parts of society.

This government has no future. The current constitutional debates are all deception and are part of their tactics. Erdoğan knows he only has four years ahead of him, he will do whatever he can do while still in power, and if he could make his own constitution in the process this would be even better for him. But these are empty aspirations. The current constitution is not being implemented anyway; there is no law; they do not even implement the existing laws that were created after September 12. What a constitution! What civil constitution are they talking about? Wearing a tie does not make someone civil. Right now, Erdoğan is the biggest dictator. He is at the head of the militarist generals. One cannot be a civilian simply by wearing civilian clothes. One cannot make a civilian constitution simply by calling the constitution civilian. They want to re-create and strengthen the September 12 constitution. They want to create the constitution of a fascist dictatorship. The ongoing constitutional debates are tactics. It is a distraction, a diversion from the agenda, and a prevention of discussions on the main agendas. It is to prevent the development of the struggle. The public needs to be aware of this and form a strong opposition.

This fascist government is trying to keep itself alive and maintain its power. For this, it is trying to deceive and distract society. It is trying to neutralize the opposition; it is trying to break the power of the opposition. Seeing this, everyone needs to play her/his role in forming a strong opposition against this fascist power. A strong struggle, both politically and socially, without falling into the trap of this power is needed. This applies to the Kurds, their democratic movement, and generally to democratic politics. This is also the case for all the forces within the system that define themselves as opposition.

This is a process in which the democratic forces have to come together, wage a united struggle, and increase their power through alliances. However, a lot of time has already passed since the municipal elections. Still, the common alliance of the democratic forces, their united struggle, the synergy that this creates, the reflection of this on society, and the power of social resistance have not yet emerged in a very clear way. They are still in a position of trial and error. There is a really passive situation. Through the municipal elections, the government has suffered a severe blow, and the initiative has passed into the hands of the opposition, the democratic forces. They have to mobilize themselves very quickly, grow their alliance forces, and raise the united struggle. They have to mobilize society, with millions of people behind them, and wage a very strong social and political struggle. There is insufficiency in this regard. There is a passive, mediocre situation. This needs to be overcome quickly. It is the same for the opposition within the system. For example, the meetings with the AKP after the elections, the meetings with the MHP, the messages exchanged afterward, Erdoğan’s discourses of softening, and Ozgur Ozel’s discourses of normalization have created a mood of false expectation in the opposition within the system and at the grassroots. Will the prevailing problems be solved through discussion and negotiation? Is this how Turkey will recover? Not at all! How is Turkey going to democratize with a fascist government, a government that is the root of the problem? The power that claims to democratize Turkey is the opposition. It is the democratic forces, the opposition itself. They must not disappoint the expectations of society in this regard. They must not let this chance given to them by society go to waste. If they lose, then the society of Turkey will lose. They will never be able to create trust and faith again.

It is said that Ozgur Ozel said, “We support the government’s foreign policy eighty-five percent because it is a national policy.” If he really used such a narrative, I mean, I have not witnessed it, but if he stated it like this, then there is a serious problem. The foreign policy of this government is known. The entire foreign policy of this government, one hundred percent of its foreign policy, is based on securing the support of foreign powers in order to bring the Kurdish genocide to a conclusion, to destroy Turkey, and to put the peoples of Turkey in a completely dark period. This is the whole foreign policy. Turkey’s foreign policy is expansionism, occupationism, and neo-ottomanism. This is the policy of this government. Now, if the CHP is going to approve and support 85 percent of this policy, then it means that the CHP has given up its function as an opposition and decided to follow this government’s tail and be its buttress, just like Kiliçdaroglu and Deniz Baykal. This is what it means. Now, it is premature to say that this is 100 percent the case. This situation must be followed closely. Many people are now discussing what CHP might want to do. No one really understands the current approach of the CHP. Ozel said, “I will bring law to Turkey; I will bring justice; the state of Turkey will be a state of law; justice was once the foundation of this state. We will make justice the foundation of this state again.” He was criticizing this marginalization and trustee policy during the municipal election, but now, on the other hand, he says that he will support the government by 85 percent. He says he supports everything that is a national policy. The national policy of this government is Kurdish genocide. It is Kurdish enmity. It is enmity against the peoples of Turkey. It is enmity against the society of Turkey. Can this be supported?

I have been following the performance of the CHP after the municipal elections closely, and I can clearly say that it was a very mediocre performance. In this short period of time, it has almost all lost its power to criticize the government and its power of opposition. What kind of course will it take from now on? Right now, no one can see this course, and no one can explain what its policy is. Still, the CHP has to embrace in democracy also Kurdish society. Politics have principles, a backbone. The CHP cannot make endless concessions, embracing fascists. This is not inclusivity.

They speak about normalization. What would a normalization process in Turkey look like? It will be the end of isolation in Imrali, the end of the torture isolation system. ‘Normalization’ can only be achieved with the provision of health, security, and physical freedom for Rêber Apo. It is the creation of the ground and environment for solving the Kurdish question on a democratic basis. This is the normalization of Turkey. If this happens, justice, freedom, and democracy will come to Turkey, and Turkey will truly normalize. Normalization does not mean releasing seven generals; it does not mean those empty talks with the opposition; it does not mean the foreign ministry briefing by Ozgur Ozel when he goes to Europe. Normalization is not simply releasing a few Gezi prisoners.

There is the story of Nasrettin Hodja. He steals a donkey and then lets it go as if he had done a good deed. Erdoğan has stolen everything, he has committed crimes, he has turned Turkey into a criminal power, a criminal country. What he has done is a crime; he has killed and killed. He has made people go through the worst so they are willing to accept the least worst option. This least-worst option is being perceived as freedom. They perceive this as democracy, law and justice. Can there be such a distorted mentality? It cannot be like this, the society and the opposition in Turkey need to shake themselves up. The situation is grave.

The one thing to do is struggle, to form a united struggle. A strong opposition and social struggle for democracy. It is necessary to wage this struggle without delay while this government is still at its weakest, while it is in the process of destruction. What should the opposition have done every day since the elections? They should have pointed out over and over again that this government has lost its legitimacy, that it has been defeated, and that it must resign. That’s what they should have said. Early elections should have been demanded, and general elections should have been demanded. But instead, everyone kept their mouths shut. Why are you giving this government time to recover? What kind of politics is this, and what kind of opposition is this?

The ongoing war cannot be considered independent of the military diplomacy and politics Turkey is conducting in the region. Lately, they have made various agreements with Iraq. This was also reflected in public opinion, and many discussions around this took place. Particularly, the Turkish press made very provocative statements. They presented it to the public as if they had gained a great victory. It was as if Iraq had surrendered to Turkey; Iraq had accepted everything Turkey wanted, and they were going to impose and implement all their policies on Iraq. They tried to create such an atmosphere that Southern Kurdistan, Iran, and everyone was aligned behind Turkey. Of course, this is a special war. The municipal elections had just ended, the AKP government had been defeated, and demoralization had developed in the base of that government. They intensified special warfare in order to break it and repel it. They tried to make this government look very successful. That is, of course, one dimension.

They could not get exactly what they wanted from Iraq. That is a fact. Iraq should not put itself in positions that will cause too much damage in the future. Iraq should not take a political stance that legitimizes Turkey’s occupation, neo-ottoman policies, and expansionist policies. This would cause great harm to Iraq. This so-called Development Road Project does not really benefit the country. This project should more appropriately be called the Occupation Road Project. It creates a corridor for Turkey’s invasion and neo-ottoman policies in order to further develop its expansionist policies over Iraq and establish its hegemony. It wants to completely encircle Southern Kurdistan and neutralize the Habur Border Gate. As I see it, the administration of southern Kurdistan and the KDP still have hesitations about this road project. Turkey is trying to reassure them. That’s why the KDP is trying to keep Turkey in a position that will cause less damage to them by taking more part in these genocide policies. Iraq should not get into situations that legitimize the policies of Turkey. Turkey and the KDP want to use the Heres Hudut, the Iraqi border forces, in their war against the guerrillas. The KDP wants to use them, under the Iraqi flag, to enter the places it wanted to enter but could not until now. The Turkish army wants to come and position itself in these places by hiding behind the KDP. It wants to establish new bases. It is conducting such a policy. In other words, the Turkish state wants to take advantage of Iraq. But this is neither in the interest of Iraq nor in the interest of southern Kurdistan.

Right now, the KDP is also going through its weakest period. The more the KDP’s relationship with this AKP-MHP fascist government developed, the more its collaboration increased, and the more the KDP took part in the Kurdish genocide war, the more the KDP weakened. The KDP lost power, and at the current point, it is very weak. The KDP has lost its influence within its own base. It has lost its reputation and really has no influence on society in southern Kurdistan. That is why the KDP does not want elections. Society would not vote for them, and the KDP is well aware of how angry the people are about it. The people are angry because, for years, the KDP has sided with the AKP-MHP genocidal fascist government in its Kurdish genocide policies. The society of southern Kurdistan does not adopt the policy of the KDP. It demands the KDP not further be a collaborator or a traitor. ‘Don’t play a role in the shedding of Kurdish blood’, is the message society sends the KDP.

When was the KDP the strongest in southern Kurdistan? In 2013–14, when the work for the national congress was being carried out, comrade Sabri and comrade Ronahi, along with some other of our friends, held talks with a delegation of the KDP, and many delegations from the four parts of Kurdistan followed. That was the period when the KDP was the strongest. In other words, it was the period when the National Congress work was carried out jointly. On the other hand, when is it at its weakest point? When the KDP deepens its betrayal and collaborationism and takes an active part in carrying out genocide policies, it is the weakest. The KDP needs to draw very serious conclusions from this. Some KDP members criticized us. They said, “Why do you always say KDP? Say Barzani family instead. Not all KDP members support this policy. Most KDP members reject this policy. The KDP administration reacts to this collaboration with Turkey and its partnership in the Kurdish genocide attacks. So do not generalize. Don’t say KDP; say the Barzani family.” Well, as an answer, let me express the following: those in the KDP who reject these policies should openly fight against the Barzani family. They should not be its partners. Remaining silent is also being a partner. There needs to be a serious reaction against the current policy in southern Kurdistan.

Our comrades announced that an invasion operation started in Metina on May 16th. Now this is progressing step by step. They are settling in the area step by step. Gradually, in the summer months, after the rain season is completely over, when the conditions are right, it looks like they will launch a comprehensive attack at the end of May or beginning of June. The attacks have never stopped, but like I said, right now they are just going one small step after another. The Turkish state is trying to establish new military bases in the area and is trying to fortify all its current military bases. It wants to occupy every place it enters and annex it in the future. It is carrying out an occupation and annexation policy, according to Misak-ı Milli.

The only thing to do against this is to stand against it and struggle. The guerrillas are resisting and is waging a very honorable, noble, and self-sacrificing war. Since 2019, without interruption, against bombardment every day, against all kinds of UCAV attacks, against all kinds of dirty warfare, against all kinds of chemical weapons, against tactical nuclear weapons, and against all other kinds of banned weapons, the guerrilla resists with its consciousness, will, courage, and commitment. They resist honorably. One can only be honored by guerrillas. This resistance is a resistance that will go down in history, in Kurdish history, in golden letters. It is a resistance that will determine the fate of the Kurds. I commemorate with all due respect, love, and gratitude all the comrades who were martyred in this resistance. I congratulate all of them on their sacrificial resistance. I greet them all with love, respect, and embrace them. They are carrying out a very honorable resistance. They are not only fighting for the freedom of Kurds; they are not only defending the freedom of Kurds; they are also defending the freedom of the peoples of the Middle East. The resistance in southern Kurdistan is also the resistance to defending the freedom of the peoples of Iraq. A struggle is being waged in the name of humanity.

Our people must stand by this resistance and develop their own self-defense mechanisms, the revolutionary people’s defense struggle. Especially the Kurdish youth should take the responsibility of carrying out the self-defense resistance everywhere, especially in northern Kurdistan. Everyone can take part in this resistance, no matter where they are.

I would also like to this occasion to congratulate our people on Kurdish Language Day. There have been some actions and press releases in this regard. These are, of course, valuable. But it should not be limited to celebrating the language on one day, to making various statements and commemorations. It is really necessary to turn every day into a day of struggle for language. Let me particularly point this out in terms of northern Kurdistan and Turkey. There has been a terrible policy of genocide for a hundred years. This has been seen in every part of Kurdistan with the Turkish state at the forefront of these genocide policies. It is the pioneer in the region. It has been practicing cultural genocide policies uninterruptedly in Kurdistan. There is also a struggle against this. In particular, the struggle of more than half a century has brought very important developments in this regard. It has dealt a serious blow to the genocide policies. In many ways, it has nullified them. But this is not enough in its current state. These policies of Kurdish cultural genocide continue in a very reckless and multiplied manner. This is mostly developed through language assimilation. The Kurdish language is really important in this regard. That is, teaching the Kurdish language to children in the family. So everything starts from childhood. Character is shaped in childhood. In other words, the traits you acquire until the age of 7-8-9, the traits you acquire in the family, in that environment, form a character, a personality in you. It creates identity, memory. These are very important. That’s why, for example, I especially call on Kurdish mothers and Kurdish fathers to teach your children the Kurdish language. Teach Kurmanji, Kirmancki; there is not much of a problem in Bashur, they learn Sorani. I made a special call to Bakur on this issue. Kurdish must be learned. Kurdish must be spoken in the family. Kurdish must be spoken on the street. When the community comes together, they should speak Kurdish. Kurdish should be spoken in shopping. Increasingly, politics in Kurdistan should be done in Kurdish. Politicians should speak Kurdish when they meet with these people in Kurdistan, when they hold meetings, rallies, when they appear in front of these people. This affects society a lot. When the leaders of the people speak Kurdish, it affects the people. It affects children, it affects young people. We need to develop this in a very widespread way. We need to work very seriously against this, we need to fight against it.

But on the other hand, some people, let’s say the KDP, speak Kurdish. KDP collaborators also speak Kurdish. Hizbul-contra also speaks Kurdish in Kurdistan. But what does it do? It is also partnering with genocide policies. It sides with the state that commits cultural genocide. It also supports all the policies of the state. It carries out a policy of genocide against the Kurdish language. That is to say, speaking Kurdish and taking Kurdish names. Now, for example, some of them appear in the ruling media. I know they are Kurdish, they also declare that they are Kurdish, they take the name Helin, Pelin, Baran, Rezan, but as a whole they are making propaganda for this fascist government. They are waging a special war, they themselves are elements of special war. This is how it is being degenerated and emptied. The issue is not only about taking a Kurdish name or speaking Kurdish; how much can you really live with your own culture, your own history, your own traditions? How much can you succeed in becoming a moral political society? How much can you experience a social emancipation based on your own values, your own culture. How much can you reveal a level of social emancipation? How much can you govern yourself, create your own self-government? Can you govern yourself, freely, equally, fairly, democratically? This is the measure. The measure is to be able to raise oneself to the level of a moral political society based on one’s own values, one’s own culture, one’s own history, one’s own heritage, to be able to create a will for self-governance based on a free moral and democratic moral society, and to be able to govern oneself. If this happens, it makes sense.

Now ecological destruction is taking place all over Kurdistan. Ecological destruction is the biggest cultural destruction, the biggest historical destruction. The historical geography where you live is being destroyed. Its forest is being destroyed, its water is being destroyed, poisoned. Its history is being destroyed, its air is being polluted. The climate is being changed. Its fauna is being eliminated. Natural vegetation is disappearing. A lot of living things are disappearing, vegetation is disappearing. This is the biggest cultural genocide. It is the biggest genocide. What did the leadership say? He said that the most basic ideological consciousness is ecological consciousness. Now you will say, what does language have to do with it? It has a lot to do with language. What is language? It is the most basic element that forms culture. Without language, the formation of culture is very crippled. But this language is also the nature of Kurdistan. You speak to that nature with that language. That language has an identity. That language has a soul. That language has an idea. So it is not independent of this. Language itself is life, culture, existence. But through its own core values. For example, we need to carry out very serious work and struggle on this issue. Some dialects are disappearing. For example, Kirmanji is my mother tongue. I really feel very sad. Now there are very few people who speak Kirmanji originally, they are very old people. Now it is gradually developing a little bit, certain groups working on the language also use it, and it is a little bit original. But it is really disappearing gradually. It is very sad. We need to protect it. All our people who speak Kirmanjki, especially in Dersim, especially the people of Dersim, in Amed, Bingöl, Erzincan, Siverek; we need to protect it everywhere.

In this sense, the women are the ones I expect the most. Women must take the lead in this. Women are the carriers of culture, women are the carriers of language. It is our mothers who have brought our culture to this day, it is the reality of women. The Kurdish woman should claim this the most.