In the second part of this interview with Medya Haber, Besê Hozat, co-chair of the KCK Executive Council, spoke about the recent developments in Turkey and Syria.

The first part of the interview can be read here. 

In connection with the attacks by the Turkish state that you have now mentioned, the government’s attacks against the opposition have also increased and the CHP, for example, is also increasingly the target of repression. How do you put this into context?

The AKP-MHP government is worried about its own life. It is worried about its own power. In order to maintain and sustain its power, it is turning towards all opposition groups in a reckless manner. There is no law, no morality, no principle, and no conscience that they follow. It has been waging a war of genocide and fascism in Kurdistan for dozens of years. And as we have always said, as long as there is fascism in Kurdistan, there will be no democracy in Turkey. If there is a war of genocide in Kurdistan, there will be no law, democracy, or justice in Turkey. We make constant calls to society in Turkey, to the opposition in Turkey – the democratic forces of Turkey are involved in this struggle with us – and to many political circles. And we were right.

Now, fascism and oppression in Kurdistan have spread all over Turkey. There can be no democracy and peace in Kurdistan while there is this oppression and fascism in Turkey as well, and no process of peace and democratic society can develop like this. Neither in Kurdistan nor in Turkey. If there is fascism in Amed, there will be fascism in Istanbul, and there will be fascism in Ankara. If there is fascism in Istanbul, there will be fascism in Amed, Colemerg (tr. Hakkari), and Dersim (tr. Tunceli). This is the way it is.

The force in charge are weak. It is afraid of a total collapse. In particular, Erdoğan is afraid of losing his power. Therefore, he attacks everyone he sees as a force, as a rival, as an alternative. He only focuses on crushing, destroying and liquidating.

Before these attacks on the CHP, trustees were appointed to many municipalities in Kurdistan. For example, in Merdin (tr. Mardin), Elih, Wan, Dersim, Xelfeti (tr. Halfeti), and many further districts. Now it also hit the CHP. Esenyurt was usurped, as were other places too. Now the government has targeted the Istanbul Metropolitan Municipality. But not only with regard to the CPH, there is an intense attack on the entire opposition. In fact, there is a political coup going on in Turkey right now. Now, how should the process of peace and democratic society develop in a place where there are so many attacks, where the opposition is under such a massive attack, where there is an attempt to liquidate and sabotage it?

Since this process came on the agenda, the DEM Party’s Imrali delegation has been working intensively. It went to all parties and held meetings. It spread the messages and perspectives from Rêber Apo [Abdullah Öcalan]. These parties made statements and said that they embrace this process. They said they would do whatever they could. For the first time in its history, the CHP showed such a courageous attitude. They evaluated it as Rêber Apo and the government and the state. CHP said that it stands by and supports this joint initiative. It said that it would provide all kinds of support. It sent this message to all parties. Then it put a democratization package on its agenda. It said that the Kurdish question could only be solved in parliament. And it said it would establish a commission in parliament. It took a serious stance against the trustee policy and stood in solidarity with the DEM Party. As a result, the attacks turned against them as well. One of the main justifications for these attacks is targeting the so-called urban reconciliation. However, urban reconciliation is a process that will support, nourish, and strengthen this process the most, a process that supports the process for peace and democratic society. Urban reconciliation expresses peace and brotherhood and unity between Kurds and Turks. Now, if one is so hostile to the urban consensus and attacks it, how will he be able to develop Kurdish and Turkish brotherhood, peace, and a democratic solution process? This can’t work out. That is why the process is currently blocked, why the isolation continues, and why there are so many attacks.

One of the parties that could contribute the most to this process is the CHP. CHP is the founding party of this state. It is one of the parties that supported this process most strongly. It said it would support this process, as long as it was serious and transparent, as the founding party of the Republic. It said that this issue should be solved in parliament.

Rêber Apo also pointed to the parliament and said that a commission should be established there. He pointed out that a legal basis must be created and that thereby a solution can be reached in parliament. The address of democratic politics and law is the parliament, society, and all its components. But if one looks at how the government is acting now, how it is taking action against any form of opposition, then it quickly becomes clear that such a path is not possible with it. There is a lack of seriousness and sincerity. They proclaimed on the first day that they would “strengthen the internal front”. We can only carry out this process together, with the participation of everyone. The solution to the Kurdish question, the problem of democratization in Turkey, is only possible with the participation of everyone. First and foremost, the opposition. And now the government is trying to liquidate the entire opposition. They are destroying the ground that has been laid for a solution. The current developments reveal the stance and attitude of this government.

There must be no misunderstandings, no room left for hesitation. In the face of the ongoing fascist attacks, Turkish society, Kurdish society, the opposition, and all democratic forces, and among them particularly the women and the youth, must develop a common attitude and wage a common struggle. Only in this way can these attacks be repelled. This AKP-MHP government under Erdoğan is trying to secure and maintain its power by crushing, liquidating, and breaking the will of all opposition. This has been clearly revealed. The mask of this government has completely fallen. The truth has been revealed. The king is naked. No one should have any hesitation about this. How can a process possibly be carried out in such an environment? Fascism is rampant. There is a massive attack against everyone. How will the Kurdish question be solved in such an environment? The grounds of democratic politics and law are being eliminated by the government.

Erdoğan is a demagogue. He talks about entering the European Union; he talks about his candidacy… You don’t apply your own constitution, you don’t apply your own law, you don’t apply the law of the European Union, international conventions, or the decisions of the ECHR. How do you dare talk about joining the European Union? Who are you fooling? He is trying to fool Europe. The economy is not declining anymore, it has collapsed. Erdoğan is trying to attract investment to Turkey by deceiving it. Turkey is collapsing. Outwardly, he is trying to present himself as being interested in peace and democracy with the Kurds. Does he want to achieve this peace with the Kurds by crushing the entire opposition? Does he want to achieve peace with chemical weapons and phosphorus bombs? Does he want to achieve peace by massacring an entire family in Kobane? Who is fooled by his demagogy?

A common struggle against fascism is necessary. The entire opposition needs to wage a strong joint struggle against fascism. There must be no fragmentation, which is the policy that the government has pursued from the beginning. Destroying, fragmenting, and preventing the opposition from coming together, and through that keeping itself alive. One must not fall for this game.

As you are speaking about Turkish fascism and nationalism, there were also some reports now in regard to Newroz that Erdoğan wanted to celebrate his own Newroz. How is it to be understood?

Newroz originated in Mesopotamia, with its center being Kurdistan. This culture spread to many geographies. Today, Newroz is celebrated by peoples in Asia Minor and the Caucasus, even Turkmens, Kyrgyz, Kazakhs, Tajiks, Persians, and Azeris. It is even said that some peoples in the Balkans celebrate it. The meaning of it for the Kurds is different. For them, it is a symbol of resistance and struggle. It is the revolt of the oppressed against the oppressor, against oppression. It expresses the rebellion of the blacksmith Kawa with the people. And until today, it has been celebrated in this geography for 2725 years. This is the meaning of Newroz in Kurdistan, while in other geographies, it is celebrated as a welcome to spring, a holiday, a spring festival.

What Erdoğan is doing right now, and what we know from many rulers like Demirel, for example, is that he is trying to appropriate this tradition for himself in order to rewrite this culture. They held various official celebrations, and lit small fires. They wanted to turn Newroz into a “Turkish Newroz”. They wanted to put it into service of the state. They want to take it out of society’s hands, rob it of its values, detach it from the spirit of struggle and resistance, detach it from its culture and tradition, and push it out of the public sphere into rented private halls. They want to assimilate it and put into service of Turkishness. They try to handle it with such a racist, nationalist understanding. This again, is part of their genocide policies against the Kurds.

Finally, we would like to talk briefly about the developments in Syria. What can you tell us about this briefly?

As long as the Turkish state has its hands in Syria, the war will not stop, and the chaos will not disappear. Turkey is the biggest obstacle to the democratization of Syria. It is trying to spread fascism from Turkey to the whole Middle East. It is trying to develop a monist, fascist, sectarian, religious, and administrative system in Syria. The Turkish state is the enemy of the people of society, of women, and of culture.

The most recent massacre of Alevis was a genocide. It deeply affected and saddened us. And it is Turkey that is behind this massacre, this genocide. They engage in such warmongering and war rhetoric. They even admitted that they took part in the massacre. From the very first day, they put all the SNA forces affiliated with it into action. Many massacres were committed by those paramilitary forces loyal to Turkey. Turkey is responsible for the massacre of thousands of Alevis. There is information that Turkey attacked some villages with helicopters, launched airstrikes, and used UCAVs. There is evidence for this. They admit that Damascus would never have been able to get control if it wasn’t for Turkey. They are responsible for war crimes and crimes against humanity. Turkey must be tried. Turkey played a role in the massacre and genocide of Alawites.

There also still is a continuous attack on North and East Syria. These attacks have never ended. In Kobane, a whole family was massacred. It was a war crime, a crime against humanity. Turkey has been hitting people’s houses and public places in service for society for years. These are all war crimes, crimes against humanity, and part of their genocide. They strike wheat silos, electricity distribution centers, and water facilities. It is hitting the crucial resources of society and massacring many civilians. This state, this government, must be held accountable for this.

There was an agreement in Damascus, and a draft constitution was put forward. One must clearly stress that at the moment, under the guidance and influence of Turkey with this mindset, with this mentality, there cannot be a democratic government in Damascus. What was published was an anti-woman, anti-society, anti-peoples constitution. This can never be accepted. And there have already been strong protests, clearly expressing this stance. It is necessary to struggle for a democratic Syria. A democratic Syria, a democratic Syrian constitution, is the only guarantee for a free co-existence of all peoples, cultures, and beliefs in Syria. It is the guarantee of a free and democratic life. Otherwise, neither the war in Syria will end nor will the chaos stop. The prerequisite for this is for Turkey – as I said at the beginning – to take its hands off Syria. Turkey is the source of all these problems. It is the biggest obstacle to the democratization of Syria. A strong struggle is needed against this.