Sabri Ok, member of the KCK Executive Council, spoke about the resumption of the war in Syria, and the interests of the hegemonic forces behind it.

The war in the Middle East deepened with the war between Hamas and Israel. It reached Lebanon, and now it has emerged in Syria. Syria has once again turned into a war zone. For what purpose did this war develop in Syria? What are the roles and missions of which forces in these attacks?

We are talking about a very complex issue. Hundreds of years ago, so many states were not established for no purpose or in vain. These states were not established by the will of the Arab community. Nation-states were established in line with goals, strategies, and interests.

Hegemonic powers established nation states in the Middle East so that there would be war, death, and slaughtering each other, so that they would not be strong, so that they would not reach the truth. The Kurds’ share is that the Kurdish question is not solved, and Kurdistan is divided into four parts. This strategy has expired. There will be changes. These changes will either come through democratic forces and society, which is what is being fought for.

Rêber Apo’s [Abdullah Öcalan] paradigm is leading the way in this regard. Or the hegemonic powers and capitalist modernity realize changes based on their long-term interests. The Israel-Hamas war has been going on for over a year; it was not localized or limited to Gaza, Palestine, and Israel. The war grew day by day, and gradually other powers got involved. Israel, with the support of the hegemonic powers, especially America, dealt a big blow to Hamas. We can see the situation of the Palestinian people now. Afterward, Israel targeted Hezbollah. Again, carried by the international forces and the most advanced technology, it dealt heavy blows to Hezbollah. It seems that they have designed Lebanon according to their own interests. America, Britain, and generally Europe and Israel have neutralized Hezbollah in Lebanon to prevent it from jeopardizing American and Israeli interests.

The situation in Syria is related to this. The Syrian regime was hit, Hezbollah was hit, and they targeted Iran, so Iran can no longer play a role in Syria as it used to. The Turkish state is always looking for an opportunity. It is calculating how to make its plans for Syria succeed. The Turkish state has supported tens of thousands of ISIS gang members and mercenaries and their versions in Idlib, on Syrian soil. Most HTS are essentially ISIS members. The Turkish state says that territorial integrity must be preserved in Syria, but it has occupied three-fifths of Syrian territory. It has not only occupied it but also annexed it. It took its own state system there. It has opened schools, administrative districts, governors, and governors, and annexed it in every sense. Bahceli also said a couple of days ago that Aleppo is a Turkish city. This Ottoman mind still sees the Middle Eastern societies as their provinces, and they approach them in a patronizing manner.

On the one hand, they say they defend the territorial integrity of Syria; on the other hand, they occupy three-fifths of it. They say they don’t want crises and chaos, but these crises and chaos are caused by gangs carried out by the Turkish state. They do the opposite of what they say. The Turkish state was saying that Israel was preparing for an attack on Syrian territory, but it is clear that they themselves have made such a preparation. America, Britain, and Israel held talks with the Turkish state. We don’t know if they planned these attacks together, but the Turkish state has calculations about Syria. It is not clear how Syria will turn out. It is an extraordinary situation. Since the beginning of the war in Syria, we have based the struggle on Rêber Apo’s paradigm. We have been based on all societies, identities, and beliefs, living together on the basis of a democratic nation, avoiding nationalism and building a democratic life together.

Rojava has taken a serious stance on this issue. The administration has always said that it is not in favor of the disintegration of Syria. They want to live together in a democratic Syria. Kurds, Arabs, Christians, Assyrians, and Turkmens shall all live together. This is the correct approach. But the nation state mind does not see Rojava’s positive and democratic approach and does not attach importance to it. The regime always insisted on itself. Russia did not play a full role; Iran tried, but either their power was not enough or there were other obstacles, so they could not get results. The ground for such an attack in Syria was prepared. Before the attacks, Erdoğan said that he was ready to negotiate with Assad. Now he is saying again that he is open to talks. What he is basically saying now is that they have managed to strike Assad; he is wounded, and therefore he must now enter into negotiations. They are forcing him to negotiate.

In general, the international powers aim to create a Syria without its own will, a Syria that accepts the existing system and serves it. The Turkish state also wants to have a Syria that suits them. It is not clear how the situation will evolve. No matter how late it is, Syria must immediately put into practice a model where all cultures, identities, beliefs, and nations can live together on the basis of a democratic nation. This is the only way to find a solution. If this is not done, the Syrian state will suffer. It will not continue like this; there will definitely be a change. What we want and what is right is for the Syrian state to recognize this reality, to open its ears and eyes, which it has closed until now, and to work on a solution. If it does not do this, it is difficult to estimate where Syria will go. The Turkish state will use these gangs to the fullest.

But there is also more. One should remember how ISIS crossed into Syria from Mosul with trucks, tanks, and all kinds of heavy weapons in front of everyone’s eyes. They became a plague for Rojava. The people of Rojava, especially the people of Kobane, put up great resistance; the international powers targeted ISIS, and finally, their will was broken to a great extent. The fate of HTS will be the same. At the moment, they are being supported and organized, and they are conquering space, but they will be thrown aside. They will also become a plague for the Turkish state. After all, Syria is a different country; the Turkish state cannot always set their agenda and adjust it. They have neither the power nor the wisdom for that. The solution is for the Turkish state to negotiate with Rêber Apo to solve the Kurdish question and to solve its internal problems.

When looking at the one hundred year history of the Turkish state, one can see that for the first time it has no role in the Middle East; it is excluded from the plans of the hegemonic powers. On the contrary, the Kurdish people were a major factor for the first time. Everywhere the Kurds are strong. Where there is no Kurdish consent, no change is possible in the name of democracy and a solution. True, there are dangers, but there are also many opportunities. If the Kurdish people and their forces have the will and take the necessary steps in time, they can play a very crucial role in the future. But the Turkish state does not have such a chance. It cannot determine its future only with ISIS.

The Astana meetings were implemented to resolve the problems in Syria, but with the emergence of these attacks, it became clear that those involved were undermining each other from behind. How do you assess this?

As far as I know, before Astana in 2016, Rojava wanted to develop a solution with the Syrian state, Iran, and Russia to hold talks and to find a way forward. They wanted to work honestly. Russia even agreed that Syria, Rojava, and Russia should come together and solve this issue, as in the Astana format. But then the Turkish state stepped up and had a meeting with the Russians the next day and made some concessions, and the approach changed. Then Astana came into being. Russia, Iran, and Turkey, and indirectly, Syria. Each of them was aiming to undermine the other. None of them trusted the other.

Russia knows very well what NATO membership of Turkey means. Also, Iran and the Turkish state have so far only gotten along over the Kurdish issue, but otherwise they have serious problems with each other in every other sense. They have never trusted each other, and their interests are rarely the same. That’s why they have tried to undermine each other in Astana. They walked together up to a certain point, but everything has come out, especially in recent days. For example, the Turkish state’s relations with Ukraine and America’s and Europe’s focus on Turkey due to its NATO membership are seen by Russia and Iran. The Turkish state’s calculations regarding the Azerbaijanis, its calculations regarding Iran’s internal problems, Iran is very well aware of this. They do not have the same views on Syria. Neither Syria nor Russia could tolerate the occupation of Syrian territory. The Astana talks were not based on principles or the right strategies. The Turkish state and its thousands of gangs had occupied Syrian territory while being a member of NATO. Syria and Russia did not want to fight and remove the Turkish state, so the Turkish state wanted to take the chance and create facts.

They carried out such policies for a while. Now everyone is reviewing the situation to evaluate who was deceived and how, what kind of games Turkey played, what Iran and Russia hope for, and what they finally received. There was never such a thing as the Astana spirit. The revival of Astana will not be so easy. No results have been achieved anyway. No problem in Syria can be solved with the Astana mindset. Instead, they should see the reality, the truth. The internal problems in Syria can only be solved within Syrian society from the perspective of a democratic nation. Society and organizations will be ready for this, and the Syrian state, no matter how late it is, must think clearly, think strategically, and make an urgent decision to act together.