In this interview, Mustafa Karasu, member of the KCK Executive Council, spoke about the isolation of the Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan, and the importance of the 15 August 1984 breakthrough, when the PKK fired its first bullet.

The total isolation of Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan continues, while at the same time, protests against it are also growing. How do you assess this current situation and the latest developments?

Before evaluating the isolation of Rêber Apo, I congratulate Rêber Apo on the occasion of the 40th anniversary of 15 August, the national Resurrection Day. Likewise, I congratulate all our freedom fighters and our people.

An intense isolation is being imposed on Rêber Apo. Just last week, comrade Besê evaluated it in more detail. So I just wanted to point out some specific points. In order to justify the continuation of the isolation, special war propaganda is being conducted. So they keep making up lies to fool people and change the agenda. Just the other day, they said that they would like to give Rêber Apo his right to hold meetings, but that it is our movement that would prevent this. This situation has not been going on for a day, a week, or a month; it has been going on for years.

Why don’t they let him meet with his family or lawyers for years? They are making baseless propaganda, creating lies and deception, but of course no one will believe this. The whole world knows how sensitive we are about Rêber Apo. In fact, there is no other movement in the world that is so protective of its leader. Even though Rêber Apo has been in captivity for 26 years and, since then, has been isolated, our movement, our leadership, and our people are protecting Rêber Apo with all our means. We are waging a struggle in line with Rêber Apo’s ideology and policy. The rumors that there are problems between him, our movement, and our people or that our movement does not want to meet with Rêber Apo are completely false and black propaganda.

Rêber Apo is in total isolation, and an intense struggle against this is taking place. In fact, the responsibility of the struggle for his physical freedom now goes far beyond the movement and the Kurdish people. It has become a responsibility that people around the world are taking on. The fact that 69 Nobel Prize-winning intellectuals have signed a petition for the freedom of Rêber Apo and sent letters to international organizations and the Turkish government has clearly demonstrated that the physical freedom of Rêber Apo has become the demand of all humanity. This isolation is unlawful and arbitrary; it has no legal basis.

They openly admit that they are afraid that if they were to allow his meetings, Rêber Apo would start talking, which would have a great impact on society and politics. The genocidal policies of the Turkish state would be exposed and harmed. This is the essential reason why they prevent any meetings. They express this themselves in different ways. According to what we have recently learned, a delegation of the Turkish state openly confessed during their meetings in Europe that Rêber Apo was expressing his thoughts and giving a message to the people, and that is why they are not letting him meet with the outside world. To deny a prisoner, a political prisoner, or rather a hostage, any contact is completely arbitrary and has no justification. Everything they cite as alleged justifications is lies and false constructs. The struggle against this situation continues and will continue. Certainly, we, our people, and humanity will not give up the struggle for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo and will develop it.

The Turkish state and its policies have been exposed, and because they have been exposed, they are resorting to all methods of special warfare. The fact that the Turkish state is resorting to special warfare propaganda and making black propaganda, claiming, for example, that our movement does not want to meet with Rêber Apo, shows how stuck it is. It cannot give a reasonable justification for why it has not allowed the lawyers or the family to come to Imrali for years. This reflects the reality of the Turkish state. It is a state that is based on special warfare. Its policy against the Kurds does not conform to any law, politics, or morality.

The essence of its fight against the Kurds is a war of perception and lies, a war to deceive and distort societies. Nothing the Turkish state says regarding the Kurdish question should be believed. Society, politicians, and the world should not fall for their lies. Lying, distortion, not showing the truth, and deceiving the world and society are the basic characteristics of this state. What kind of fascist power the Turkish state is is clearly understood from the isolation and psychological warfare against Rêber Apo. Many intellectuals and writers around the world are demanding his release. Their embrace and solidarity need to be seen as part of the global struggle for freedom and democracy.

Rêber Apo’s thoughts and paradigm are of high significance not only for the Kurdish people, the peoples of the Middle East, or Turkey, but for all of humanity. At a time when capitalist modernity is corrupting society and the world, Rêber Apo’s paradigm is a prescription for the salvation of humanity. In this respect, the people see his struggle for freedom as their own struggle for freedom. That is also the reason why solidarity with him is growing exponentially.

15 August 1984, marks the 40th anniversary of an essential breakthrough in your movement. It was a day of resurrection that is being celebrated today in Kurdistan and in many parts of the world. The significance of the day is often assessed, and attempts are made to classify it correctly, but what I would like to ask specifically is what particular consequence 15 August had on the prisons. You were in the infamous prison of Amed (Diyarbakir) during that period. How was the 15 August breakthrough reflected in prison?

Before coming to my answer to your question, I would like to commemorate  comrade Agit, the commander of the 15 August breakthrough, with gratitude and respect. Comrade Agit was the commander who initiated and gave the spirit of this struggle. I also commemorate with gratitude and respect comrade Erdal, comrade Huseyin Mahir, comrade Zeki Shengali and comrade Atakan Mahir, who were also martyred in the month of August. Also, I want to commemorate with gratitude and respect comrade Alan Malazgirt and comrade Berwar Dersim, whose martyrdom was recently announced by the People’s Defense Center (HPG). Hundreds and thousands of our friends were martyred in the month of August; I commemorate them all with respect. All of them were following in the footsteps of comrade Agit. They fought in the most difficult conditions and overcame the greatest difficulties in order to make the breakthrough of August 15 a success.

When the breakthrough of 15 August took place, we were in prison. At that time, the pressure in prison had eased thanks to the January 1984 resistance within the prison. During that time, a family came to visit us. They told us that the friends had come to the Botan region and that they were making preparations in order to start guerrilla warfare. This news was sent to boost our morale. At first, I didn’t tell anyone this information, since I could not confirm whether it was just a rumor or already a fact. I didn’t tell anyone for a few months. Then I only told one friend about it. When the breakthrough finally took place on 15 August 1984, the friends around me immediately became curious; there were discussions about who had made this move and who knew about it.

Previously, during the death fast in 1982, we knew that our friends were making preparations and planning armed action because of information brought through the families. We heard that our movement was making preparations and wanted to regroup and fight. Our contact with the outside was very limited, and we received partial information about forming a guerrilla towards the end of 1983. We also received a part of a book called “The Kurdistan Problem and the Way of Solution.” This book was brought by a friend who was exiled from Xarpet (tr. Elazig) to Amed. We tried to evaluate this information and these books, but we just reached limited results. The impact was all the greater when we heard of the 15 August breakthrough. This move relieved a great burden on the friends. They realized that the tortures were not in vain and that the suffering they had endured for standing up for this cause became meaningful on 15 August.

The enormous impact of 15 August on the prisons eliminated the corrosive effects of the previous pressures. Until then, there had been resistance, but it had worn out because of the great pressure. On 15 August, everything changed. Already after 14 July, there was a significant change, and the struggle and belief were reinforced. A new period had begun in the prisons, both in terms of organization and resistance, but 15 August took this to a whole new level, and everyone gained new morale. It made the friends realize the importance and value of their resistance and suffering. This was a very crucial development.

On 15 August, the role of the prisons changed. The prison resistance served as a bridge in the period between 1980 and 1984, when there was just very limited struggle on the outside. After the military coup in 1980, our party retreated. In this process, the prison resistance filled this gap and formed a bridge of resistance through 14 July and the death fast. 15 August had an important impact on the formation of this resistance. In addition, one of the most important effects of August 15th in prison was the failure of the state’s prison policies.

The Turkish State aimed to intimidate and surrender those imprisoned, and then execute the leaders of this resistance. But when 15 August took place, even before, when they could not liquidate the movement, but instead it became a peoples struggle, the situation radically changed. The guerrillas entered the country in 1983, and the Turkish state launched operations against the Medya Defense Areas, such as Operation Sun and the operations in the Behdinan region. Because they could not crush the movement, and essentially because Rêber Apo made a great effort to recover the movement, the Turkish state started to carry out executions everywhere. They executed civilian and judicial prisoners. At this time, it was our movement that carried out the most armed actions against fascists, gangs, spies, and those who oppressed the people in Turkey.

Before the military coup of 12 September 1980, for the first time in the mountains of Kurdistan after 1938, bigger weapons were used. At that time, in groups of ten, big weapons were used, not just pistols. These weapons were used for self-defense while they moved in the mountains. There were some clashes; gendarmes and soldiers were killed, and our movement carried out many actions against the torturing police officers. Before 12 September, we were the movement that fought the most against the fascist groups, torturing policemen and colonialist Turkish soldiers. But while other organizations were executed, they could not execute us.

The reason for this is that our organization backfired. If executions had been carried out after the 15 August breakthrough, we would have answered them. Instead of weakening the struggle, executions would have angered the people and strengthened the struggle. For this reason, although executions were carried out in all organizations, they did not execute us. We were struggling, and the 15 August breakthrough was realized. It prevented executions and reduced the pressure in prison. Generally speaking, it prevented the neutralization of our movement. Therefore, the effects of 15 August in the prison provided great morale, and the old repression did not return. The mood of the friends who had been repressed and tortured really changed; even our gait changed.