The PKK (Kurdistan Workers’ Party) Executive Committee Member Murat Karayılan spoke to ANF about the latest developments on the agenda.

The second part of Karayılan's comments to ANF on the agenda are as follows:

There has been a very important war in Kurdistan in the last 9 years. In the last 3 years, this war has grown even more. This war was fought not only in the Medya Defence Zones or on the Bashûr (Southern Kurdistan) line, but also in Bakur (Northern Iraq). For example, in 2023, the toughest war was fought in Bakur. But Bakur is not on the agenda of the press. The Turkish state does not announce it, and we do not hear about it in time. We hear about it a month or two later. Then that news is off the agenda. But in all the provinces of Bakur, from Dersim to Gever, from Gever to Mardin, Garzan, Serhat, Amed and Botan, a very tough war was waged. I commemorate all Bakur resistance fighters in the person of comrades Leyla Sorxwîn, Yaşar, Axîn Muş, Dilgeş Gûzereş, Canşêr Mako, Hêjar Zozan, Redûr Sîser. All these martyrdoms took place in 2023.

As is known, there has been a very tough war in Southern Kurdistan for 3 years. There is an important resistance on the Zap, Avaşîn Metîna line. After this war and resistance, the development of the move was undoubtedly very important. As is known, the move started with the action in Ankara on 1 October, by our self-sacrificing comrades Rojhat and Erdal. Then the move was continued in November. In this move, comrades Andok, Ciwan, Botan and Egît Kobanê were martyred. Again, in December, a move was led by comrades Welat, Helmet, Hüseyin and Memyan and these comrades were martyred. The move in January was led by comrades Serxwebûn and Rizgar. The hero of the move in February was the valuable martyr comrade Şervan Varto. I commemorate all these martyred comrades with respect and honour. We will be the followers of their memories. They represented a sacrificial spirit. They developed a move. We had a total of 13 martyrs in this move. I don't need to tell you the enemy's losses, they are in the hundreds. As we have explained before, they suffered a lot of losses, a number of arms and weapons were captured. The important thing is that the mill of the Turks was burnt (Aşê Romê hate şewitandin). They burnt many of our villages and regions. But the last two actions in January and February, in particular, were carried out in this style.

Undoubtedly, the actions in recent months have a message. They have a purpose. It is not only about killing the enemy; these actions have shown the performance of the Kurdistan Freedom Guerrilla. In other words, the guerrilla showed everyone how expertly it acts, how creatively and in a coordinated manner, how it develops actions on the basis of conquest, with what kind of spirit, with what kind of style, how much control it has over the technique. Both friend and foe saw the performance of the guerrilla. At the same time, the guerrilla also revealed the truth about the mercenaries and hired soldiers of the Turkish state. It was also clear how they ended up when they entered the war. Most importantly, the Turkish state has been giving us life expectancy for years. It always says 1 year left. The last time, in 2016, there was someone called Süleyman Soylu; he was saying that there would be no more PKK in April 2017. Unfortunately, we see that some Kurdish organisations also believe this. However, when we look at history, since our foundation, the Turkish state has always given us 1 year to live. But this struggle has been going on for all these years. This is a people's struggle, it is based on a principle, it has a will and a power. In these last years, they have increased the psychological warfare even more.

These actions destroyed the psychological warfare propaganda of the fascist AKP-MHP regime and exposed their lies. If the guerrilla wants, it can carry out actions in the centre of Ankara, in the most sensitive place, if it wants, it can set fire to military bases and liquidate them. Such a specialised fighting force can conquer everywhere, whichever city it goes to, wherever it targets, it hits and gets results. This fact has been revealed. We have faith in our strength. Especially in the last years, our power has reached a high level. Both specialisation and professionalism have been strengthened, and the Apoist fedayeen spirit has risen. In these years, the Apoist sacrificial spirit has developed in male and female comrades. Each of them can carry out actions like Rojhat and Erdal. The rise in the spirit of sacrifice, the development of specialisation, technical mastery and tactical creativity further strengthen the performance of our forces. Today we are even more conscious about how to get results and with which doctrine we can achieve success.

The guerrilla proved its invincibility in the new period as well

Our war doctrine has become clearer. How will we act against such a period when the sky turns into state terror? How will we use human will, human creativity against technology? How will we develop agile, flexible tactics and how and in what style will we use technology against them? What kind of method will we use in the sky, underground and on land? The Kurdistan Freedom Guerrilla has reached a level in these matters. Therefore, today, more than ever, we have faith in success. With these methods, on the basis of this doctrine, we will achieve results. Of course, more creativity must be developed. We must also follow the line correctly. It has become clear how the Kurdistan Freedom Guerrilla will defend free areas in the 21st century, how it will act against the technology of the period, how it will be invincible if we are clear, sharp and dominant in the line, and if we can put it into practice moment by moment. On this basis, the Kurdistan Freedom Guerrilla proved its invincibility in the new period as well. It showed how it is an invincible force against the attacks of the Turkish state that have been going on for years. Especially when they procured unmanned aerial vehicles, they said that the PKK had one year to live. They believed that they would get results with the technique and made propaganda on this basis. But in recent years, the guerrilla has produced solutions and achieved results even in the face of new techniques. On this basis, we have acted more decisively. We know what our goal is and we will achieve it.

They first want to liquidate the PKK and then eliminate the Kurdish gains

As it is known, the current Turkish state regime is made up of an alliance. This alliance consisting of AKP, MHP and the racist Ergenekon has a purpose. What is this aim? It sees the development of the Kurdish people in the Middle East as a danger for itself and wants to eliminate this danger. For this purpose, they first want to liquidate the PKK, and then they want to eliminate the gains of the Kurdish people, that is, the existing status. For this, they have a secret Misak-ı Milli [establishing the borders of the Ottoman National Pact] project based on occupation. The alliance was formed on this basis, and they have been fighting against us for 9 years. In fact, they wanted to reach the result faster, but they failed. Finally, they wanted to accomplish a result in 2023 and declare their victory. Because the year 2023 was the centenary of the foundation of the Turkish state, as well as the 100th anniversary of the Treaty of Lausanne. Therefore, they wanted to declare their victory, but they failed. They thought that they would occupy Zap and its surroundings in three months and capture all the Medya Defense Zones, but they are still around Zap for three years, they are stuck. They still haven't given up on this, they want to make a new plan again. Because Turkey's system was also very weakened in this war. It has become very weak, especially in economic terms. Because they always invest their income in this war.

Likewise, they mobilise politics, diplomacy and everything else against the struggle of the Kurdish people. They always take an extraordinary approach. That's why they want to end it as soon as possible. They cannot prolong it. But there is one thing; they have realised very well that they cannot cope with the Kurdistan Freedom Guerrilla alone. In February 2021, they first went to Baghdad with a large delegation, then to Hewlêr (Erbil). At that time, they told the Baghdad and Hewlêr administrations that ‘it will be good if you join us, but if not, we can do it ourselves. Our technology and our soldiers are enough to expel the PKK from Garê and to clear all of these areas. But you should only support us in the field of intelligence and approve us politically, be with us.’ And they said OK. Anyway, the soldiers who came to Garê at that time came from Bashiqa, not from Turkey. This shows that they received the approval of both Baghdad and Hewlêr administrations.

The Turkish state believed that it could defeat us by itself, but after 3 years of war it realised that it cannot succeed alone. That is why it is looking for allies to fight with it against the guerrilla, against the PKK. It wants more support from NATO, it wants it to put its weight on Rojava and other places, it wants more weapons. At the same time, it wants troops from Iraq to join, saying ‘let's form a joint movement.’ It also wants the KDP to be directly involved in the war. This is also the reason for their recent visit. There was a traffic. They also travelled to America and discussed the results among themselves. Most probably, they may come to Baghdad and Hewlêr with bigger delegations within this month and repeat their demands.  Because they do not seem to have achieved their goals so far. That is why they want to insist. According to the news in the press, military and intelligence delegations held a meeting to discuss the borders. Turkey is focusing its attention on talks in order to get some other powers to fight against us by directly siding with them. This is the reason for the meeting traffic.

KDP does not refuse to participate in the war

Currently, many talks are taking place between the KDP and the Turkish state. But the content of the talks is mostly not disclosed by the KDP, it is kept secret. But the Turkish state makes statements about this from time to time. On the other hand, we also have intelligence. We receive information about what is being discussed. According to the information we have received, KDP does not refuse to participate in the war, but it says that it should not only be it, but also the PUK or Iraq. It demands this from Turkey. Obviously, KDP does not want to participate in the war under its own name, it wants to participate either on behalf of the regional government or on behalf of the Iraqi government, under the Iraqi flag. When the Turkish state wanted to meet with the PUK and the PUK rejected this demand, Hakan Fidan, Yaşar Güler and later Erdoğan himself threatened the PUK. Most recently, PUK President Bafil Talabani also expressed his attitude against these threats.  

PUK’s national stance will make it stronger

I personally do not know Kek Bafil [Talabani], I have not seen him. I have seen Mam Celal [Talabani] a lot, I can say we were friends, but I have never seen Bafil. But I read and listened to his statements in the press. It was very natural, very clear, very normal and national. What does he say in his statement? He says 'Why should we fight a Kurdish party? We do not fight any Kurdish party.' Is there anything more natural than that? Every Kurd, every Kurdish party should say this. The PUK President's statements against these threats and pressures will undoubtedly raise the PUK. Because this is a stance, it has a national aspect. This stance will further strengthen the PUK. In the past, Mr Celal Talabani had also said, 'We would not give even one of our cats to Turkey'. Bafil Talabani is following in his footsteps. This is a national stance. It has nothing to do with us. This is how he enlightens his politics. Anyway, every Kurd should act like this.

KDP instructed its forces to prepare themselves until the end of March

Another remarkable situation is that the officials of the Turkish state have recently been saying 'we agree with the KDP'. In other words, they say that ‘the KDP will cooperate with us more from now on.’ One wonders what further co-operation means. They are sharing intelligence. This is called spying. In the past, only the Parastin organisation used to do it, but in the last two years they have expanded the framework. Asayish (Local Security Forces) also does it, as well as special forces like Zêrevan. When our comrades pass through a place, either when they see it on their cameras or when someone hears about it, direct air strikes by the Turkish state follow. We witness such things every day. Let no one say that we are slandering them, this is not slander. If anyone does not believe, let him/her stay with us for a day or two and he/she will see for himself/herself. There are roadblocks, embargoes, siege attempts. Those who bring us two sacks of flour are thrown into prison. We know how many Kurds from that region are in the prisons of Duhok and Hewlêr, and we know about those arrested in Behdînan. On the other hand, when they see one of our friends on the road, they pick him up. Of course, they have the right to detain him if he has no identity card with him, but we see that they torture him. It is shameful to torture each other among Kurdish parties. You may be against it, but the person you detain is a politician. You can arrest them for violating your laws, but why torture them?

We know that our arrested friends are currently under torture in KDP prisons. During the interrogation, they ask questions within the scope of intelligence, such as ‘where is Cemal's location, where is Cuma's location, how many of you are there?’ They want to get information. Why is this so? Mele Mustafa Barzani has a place in Kurdish history. Mele Mustafa Barzani has an important saying such as 'whoever spies for the enemy, whoever takes the enemy's weapons is a Cahş (traitor). So how do those who say they are the descendants of Mele Mustafa Barzani do this? Isn't it a shame? It is a shame; it should not be done.

It should be known that I know a lot about the KDP, but I won't say it. There are some things that if we say them, all the ties between us will be broken. I don't want the ties broken completely, that's why I don't say everything. Things about us, the projects they have realised, the projects they haven't realised, we know them all, we have information. But I do not understand what is beyond this. The Turkish state says that they will cooperate more from now on, but what is beyond cooperation would be a war. We have already received information; they have instructed their forces to prepare themselves until the end of March. This is not a good thing.

In the 21st century, an intra-Kurdish war is a great shame

I want our people to know this, especially our honourable people of Behdînan, as everything is happening in front of their eyes. We are sacrificial people. The young women and young men of the Kurdish people do not receive any salary or money, we sacrifice ourselves for the holy cause, for the defence of Kurdistan's land. We are such people and we do not want an intra-Kurdish war. We are trained to fight against the enemy, and we act in this way. Therefore, let the people of Behdînan, Bashûr and all Kurdistan know that we do not want a civil war. Although so much has happened, we are protecting ourselves from a civil war. Believe me; if we hadn't warned our comrades every day, if we hadn't constantly prevented things, who knows how many times we would have ended up in a civil war by now. If we kill each other as Kurdish people in the 21st century, this will be reactionism, a great shame for us, a shame for Kurdish politics. The world would laugh at us. They would say, ‘Look, what the Turks say is true, the Turks say these are not a nation, but tribes and they have fallen against each other for their own interests.’ That's why we don't want it to come to that stage.

KDP officials should approach strategically, not tactically

Another point is that the Turkish state wants this. The Turkish state wants the KDP and the PKK to be in a conflict. We know the Turkish officials; they are the same age as us, we went to school with some of them, we have followed some of them closely, we have known them for years, we know their psychology. They want to destroy not the PKK, but us Kurds. The PKK can have dialogue in some respects; in essence, they want to destroy all Kurds and eliminate the status of Kurds. This is their aim, nothing else. For example, they want to take Garê, and they want to achieve this with the help of the Kurds. What will happen if they take Garê? Garê is a strategic place. Below Garê is the road between Hewlêr and Duhok. Apart from that, it dominates the Mosul Plain. They want to unite it with Bashiqa anyway, because it is 30 kilometres away from Garê. In other words, it wants to gradually settle in Bashûrê Kurdistan and somehow throw itself into Kirkuk. It is already training and preparing Turkmens close to it. A few days ago, there was a fire in Hewlêr. Who claimed responsibility? Ahd-i Milli did. Everyone knows that Ahd-i Milli is a Turkmen organisation that is chauvinist, Turanist and affiliated to MİT [Turkish intelligence service]. MİT is training them. So, did they burn the place down without MIT's knowledge? They had already burned some places down in Kirkuk before.

The approach should be strategica but not tactical. The Turkish state, the MHP, Ergenekon and the AKP will abolish the Kurdish status. It will abolish the federation and autonomy in Bashûrê Kurdistan and Rojavayê Kurdistan. Maybe they can assign tasks to their collaborators, their own men. This is their mentality; this is their aim. They have overt and covert politics. Their covert politics are exactly like this. They want to achieve results in this way. We say that this should not be done. KDP officials should also see this. Approach a little strategically, do not approach so tactically. The ‘further support’ mentioned by the Turkish state means war. What will happen if they fight? I, or we as the Movement, will call on the people of Kurdistan, Kurdish friends and all Apoists. We will say, ‘Apoists in every part of Kurdistan, you shall attack, too.’ If there happens to be a war, it will be like this. There will be war all over Kurdistan. If KDP forces go to Metîna with the Turks and attack our comrades, if they come to Garê and do the same thing, then we will do the same. It will be beyond us thereafter. Let our people know this. Well, what will happen then? Everything will be lost. I am not threatening anyone, but I want everyone to know that we have our sacrifical forces. We can reach anywhere. We also have technical power, we can reach everywhere, every city. We shouldn't think so badly about each other.

We call on everyone to be sensible and responsible

We especially want the Barzani family to approach this issue responsibly. Let this not happen, let this evil not happen. If this happens, then the Kurds will have no status left. This is what the Turks want. The situation is this sensitive and dangerous. That is why everyone must take responsibility. I have previously appealed to artists, intellectuals and writers. Some of them made efforts, but nothing came out. But this issue concerns everyone. It is not a matter between parties, it is a national issue. The status of the Kurds will be annihilated. Everyone is thinking about how the Middle East will be designed. What will become of Syria and Iraq? The Turkish state wants to take control before anything happens. It wants to take Iraq and Syria under its protection and achieve its Misak-ı Milli goal. They form alliances and act on this basis. We also need to form an alliance among ourselves. What we need is an alliance. Civil war means going astray, deviating from the national line, working against national unity. Therefore, we call on everyone to be sensible and responsible.

Civil war would be a disaster for the Kurds

There is a limit to everything. If they keep coming at us, if they finally blockade us and join the war together with the Turks... They are already co-operating now anyway, and beyond that would be a direct war. We want them to stop co-operating with the Turks. They should stop spying under the name of intelligence sharing. It is shameful. The mentality of ending us with Turkish techniques is not right. As the PKK, we will not disappear. We are an ideological movement, we have millions of sympathizers, thousands and tens of thousands of cadres. The PKK is not only stationed in Behdînan. The PKK is huge. What would it be like if Kurds all over Kurdistan turned against each other during a battle with the PKK? Wouldn’t everything be lost then? This is why I said three years ago that this would be a disaster. I say it again; civil war would be a disaster for the Kurds. Everything would be lost. No one should say that they can save themselves, that they have this or that behind them. The greatest support is the people; we have our people behind us, we believe in our people. We will fulfil our duty with courage and determination. We will do whatever is necessary. We have nothing big to lose. But we will lose this period. We believe in ourselves in this matter; let no one worry. We have the Newroz Festival ahead of us, a national spirit develops in Newroz. Everyone should experience a national feeling. National unity must develop. What should not happen now is a war against each other. This is the issue.

Dear people, you should know that we are making efforts in this sense, but not everything depends on us. Because, as I said, our opponents are advancing further every day. They are blocking the road more and more. For example, they are monitoring the area around Sergelê with cameras. Have a conscience! We are fighting hand-to-hand with the Turkish state in Girê Amediyê, two kilometers above here. They have millions of soldiers, tanks, cannons, helicopters, airplanes, everything. They are thousands, we are hundreds, we are fighting against each other. If they were conscientious, if they were fair, they should have helped us. We are Kurds, we are defending the territory of Kurdistan, and we are the side under attack and blockade. And yet they stand up and help the Turks. Oh, conscience! We need chivalry!

I am very surprised. What kind of commanders are they that they are guarding Turkish troops? They set up ambushes in front of us to prevent us from reaching Turkish soldiers. So many of our actions have been sabotaged by them in this way until today. We know that it is them. Our friends still do not attack them, and they turn back without carrying out actions. It is clear that without the support of the KDP, the Turkish state cannot establish a base anywhere. Even if they do, we will throw them out of there. They should stand aside and watch. This is what we want anyway. We are not asking them to help us, we are asking them to step aside and let the one who defeats the other side determine the outcome. The Turkish state already has every means possible, while we have faith, belief and love for our country. Let them come. If they can destroy us, then it's good for them. Watch them. But no, they help them. Intelligence, roadblocks... They take measures from a kilo of flour to a lemon. It can't be like this. It's not conscientious, it's not fair. When we look in the press, they talk about Kurdishness morning and night, but not in practice. These are contradictions. We hope that these contradictions will be eliminated and corrected. It is dangerous to cooperate with the Turkish state. That's why we wanted to warn everyone. We expect everyone to act responsibly.