KCK Executive Council Member Mustafa Karasu spoke about the ongoing Turkish attacks against guerrillas and Rojava, as well as Israel's war on Gaza.

Lately, the guerrillas have been able to inflict severe blows on the Turkish army and the Turkish state’s position in the war has seriously deteriorated. What can you tell us about the circumstances surrounding this?

Both the operations of the guerrilla in 2023 and the operations in January and February shook the Turkish army. It put the Turkish army in a stalemate in the Medya Defense Areas, they were stuck in a swamp. It can be described like this. These actions also show the level of the struggle against the conspiracy. They also express anger towards the conspiracy. In fact, the continuation of the conspiracy and the continuation of genocidal colonialism against the Kurdish people carry the same meaning. Defeating genocidal colonialism is only possible by defeating the conspiracy. When the conspiracy is defeated and the conspiracy falls, the genocidal colonialist policy will collapse. In this respect, the operation last February was a very important attitude against the conspiracy. It is an attitude against the genocide practiced on the Kurds.

Rêber Apo has declared February 15 as the ‘Kurdish Genocide Day’. Because the Kurdish genocide started in 1924 after the Treaty of Lausanne. In fact, with the Treaty of Lausanne, international powers gave their approval to the Kurdish genocide. Turkey received approval for the Kurdish genocide in exchange for giving up Mosul and Kirkuk. The reaction of the Kurdish people emerged against this, as can be seen for example in Sheikh Said’s resistance in 1925, which was a resistance against this policy of genocide. In this framework, after 1924, the attack against the Kurds was initiated. This is how the Kurdish genocide began. February 15th was the day the Sheikh Said resistance began. On February 15th, Rêber Apo was taken into captivity. Rêber Apo saw these as a conspiracy of genocide against the Kurdish people. He saw them as genocidal attacks.

The guerrilla took an attitude against this conspiracy, against this policy of genocide. This is not only the attitude of the guerrilla; it is the attitude of a people. It is the attitude of the Kurdish people against genocide. This is how the guerrilla’s stance and attitude should be seen. It is clear that the guerrilla’s level of sacrifice expresses the Kurdish people’s passion for freedom. In these difficult conditions, in the most difficult conditions, the guerrilla’s realization of these actions against all kinds of techniques revealed the energy, belief and determination of the Kurdish people’s passion for freedom, and the level they have reached with their struggle, especially the Kurdish youth. The anger of the Kurdish people is being expressed. It is not just an action or a stance of the guerrillas. It is the anger of the Kurdish people, a blow of freedom against the enemy.

Indeed, without the support of the KDP, without international support, the Turkish army would not be able to stay there. For this reason, they had a very difficult time. They established relations with Iraq and established relations with the KDP. The Turkish state is now trying to get out of that difficult situation with its diplomatic activity. It is trying to bring Iraq there. It is deepening relations with the KDP. In this respect, the guerrillas have really initiated a wave of shocking actions for them. There was a new wave of invasion attacks by the Turkish army launched on 21 October. Now, it was revealed how they were defeated.

The Turkish state will insist and will not give up this policy. The Turkish government ruled by the ‘Justice and Development Party’ (AKP) and the ‘Nationalist Movement Party’ (MHP) has associated power with war. Society has collapsed, the economy has collapsed, culture has collapsed, morality has collapsed. It’s only means of survival is this genocidal war. It tries to survive through this, but no matter what it does, it is not possible to get the results they want. As a result of this struggle, the genocidal system will collapse.

There is a sharp struggle going on. The Turkish state is attacking using all its means. But against this, the people have a stance, the guerrillas have a stance. The Turkish state is exposed. It is a very exposed state. There is almost no one left to support it – to openly support it. Other support is political, ideological, and based on economic interests. In this respect, it has no political legitimacy, it has no moral legitimacy, and the whole world sees that the Turkish state’s reality is fascist, genocidal and colonialist. This is the position of the Turkish state before the eyes of the world. But it is still trying to be saved by marketing and selling itself.

Of course, there will be more attacks by the Turkish state in the coming period. But we can say the following: This guerrilla resistance, this determination, this experience of the guerrilla and the support of the people… In Turkey, in North Kurdistan, the AKP-MHP fascist government is forcibly attacking the people, applying all kinds of oppression, but the people’s support for the guerrilla continues. This is certain. They try to prevent this support by pressure and force. But it is clear that the hearts of the people are with the guerrilla. In fact, their struggle gives the people great confidence and morale. It enables the people to continue their struggle with this morale. This reality is obvious.

Attacks by the Turkish state in the Medya Defense Zones have continued unabated recently. Recently, civilians have also been killed again in Turkish attacks. One of the latest developments is that the KDP is gathering its peshmerga forces in the uniforms of Iraqi border troops in the guerrilla area. What do you think about these developments and the statements made recently?

We are following the developments regarding the amassing of KDP peshmerga.  Certain statements have already been made by their administration. This is not new. They have amassed these supposed border troops in the Medya Defense Areas before. They were all from the KDP. But back then, they were limited, few numbers. Let’s say some of them were even friendly to the movement because they understood the game the KDP was playing, they had relations. But that was how it was at that time. Now the KDP and Turkey want to play a new game. They want to pit Iraq against our movement. The Turkish state is stuck in a deadlock, the KDP is stuck in a deadlock as well, and it is being exposed. They are actually trying to get out of this situation. For this reason, they are amassing under the name of Iraqi border troops. Almost all of them are KDP members. How did this situation arise? This is forced by the KDP rather than Iraq. KDP is pushing Iraq. Turkey is pushing Iraq.

The KDP is imposing this situation on Iraq by using the Iraqi flag like this to save its own situation. It supposedly wants to pit Iraq against our movement. This is a game. We believe that Iraq will not play this game, neither side has any interest in it. It is clear where the eyes of the Turkish state are. Every day they talk about the Misak-ı Milli.

There is nothing to say about the KDP. It has been collaborating with the Turkish state until now. Now it is trying to take relations to a different level. We think that Iraq will not, and should not, play this game. Turkey and the KDP together are trying to put pressure on Iraq and drag it into the war that they are waging and in which they have reached an impasse.

How do you evaluate the attacks of the Turkish state against Rojava and North-East Syria?

More than 5 million people live in Rojava and North-East Syria. The population of Arabs and Kurds is almost equal. In other places, entire states have populations of only two or three million. Through these attacks, the Turkish state is trying to collapse the infrastructural system of a community of 5 million people. They are trying to poison the lives of the people. Power stations are being hit, hospitals are being hit, oil fields are being hit, publishing houses are being hit, roads are being hit. Rojava is under constant attack.

The latest attack targeted the Assyrian people. In a way, they are trying to make Rojava uninhabitable. It is a complete genocide policy. They try to dehumanize the place. They search to occupy it and settle gangs according to their plans. Can this not be called a plan of the United Nations? The map Erdoğan showed them marked exactly the areas where the Kurdish people settle. They want to erase the Kurds from here. Who will he bring here? Refugees. He says this openly, “let’s invade, let’s bring refugees there, let’s solve this problem”. He says to the Europeans, look, this is how we will solve your problem. He is blackmailing the Europeans in this regard. It is a really inhumane situation. No voice is raised against this. I guess Europe and the US would speak out immediately if there were such attacks elsewhere in the world. But they do not speak out against these attacks. First and foremost, Turkey is a member of NATO. It is bound by some laws of the European Union. It does not obey. It destroys public order. What is public order? Most essentially, it means providing security for society. That is what Turkey attacks. They try to make the region unreliable, uninhabitable, destabilized and, finally, to occupy it. It attacks 5 million people. Erdoğan is taking revenge on those who are fighting against ISIS. All those people who Erdoğan says he hit are the fighters and commanders who are fighting against ISIS. The attacks against Rojava are really intense. But they are not well exposed. It needs to be exposed well.

It is the same with Şengal [Sinjar] and Mexmûr. There, the KDP also legitimizes it. The KDP is also saying this: see how those Kurds could be shot if they don’t agree with us. Why are the Kurds in Rojava attached to Rêber Apo? Also, Mexmûr is loyal to Rêber Apo. In Shengal, they are loyal to the Leader. Of course, Shengal, will be loyal to the Leader. He warned us before the genocide, he ordered us to take care of it. Rêber Apo has always taken care of the Êzidî people from the very beginning. Today, if they have an identity, if they can speak freely and express themselves, it is Rêber Apo who made this possible. Of course, they love Rêber Apo. The KDP is hostile to Kurds who love Rêber Apo, just like the Turkish state is. The Turkish state has no justification for striking. The only reason for the attack on Rojava is Kurdish enmity. The Kurds need to establish a democratic system for themselves there. The interests of the Turkish state in these attacks need to be exposed all over the world. Also, the role of Europe, the US, the Coalition Forces needs to be exposed.

While evaluating the war in the region, what is your perspective on the latest developments in the fighting between Israel and Hamas?

We have evaluated the state of  war before. Of course, this war is going on and will continue. Israel will continue the war until it achieves its goals. They are already talking about a Gaza without Hamas. Europe and the US agree to this. It is understood that the war will continue. But what is interesting here is the attitude of the Turkish state. We were listening to Erdoğan the other day. He was saying “we don’t want the war there to spread.” However, the state that wants the war to spread and wants it to continue, more than any other state, is the Turkish state. The Turkish state wanted the Israeli-Gaza war to spread to the region so that it could benefit from it. This was exposed before the eyes of the world. Everyone in the world is discussing it right now. We are not the only ones saying this. The US energy route was going to pass through there if their plan had succeeded. So, Turkey directed Hamas in order to sabotage it. It is the Turkish state that directed this massacre and killing of civilians. The world is talking about it.

The Turkish state does not want Israelis and Arabs to make peace. If Israel and the Arabs continue their fighting, Turkey’s importance in the Middle East will increase. Both against Israel and against the Arabs. It is said that Erdoğan embraced Hamas for the sabotage of the energy route developed by the US. These are being discussed and evaluated. Even the pro-AKP press were saying on TV, “Why doesn’t Iran wage war against Israel, why doesn’t Hezbollah wage war?” Finally, when the Houthis were attacked in the Red Sea, Erdoğan said, “Look, it’s good. The Houthis don’t listen to Iran, they are doing the right thing”. They were openly supporting the Houthis.

Now Erdoğan is shamelessly saying that “war has morals”. True, there is morality in war. Yes, Israel does not abide by the morality of war, but it is the Turkish state that does not abide by the morality of war the most. We are talking about the AKP-MHP government. Erdoğan, didn’t you say “we will do what is necessary, whether it is a woman or a child?” You killed women and children. No one in the world says this openly. They kill women and children, but they don’t say it. Erdoğan said it, bragging about it. How many Kurdish politicians are in your prisons at this moment? What have they done? You put them in prison just for defending the Kurdish identity. You hit them with guns, you hit them in Rojava, you hit civilians in Qendîl. So many civilians were killed in Qendîl. You struck in Kortek (central Qendîl), in Şengal, in Sulaymaniyah. Erdoğan has become the mafia of the world. He gets a call in Turkey, then goes to Sulaymaniyah and shoots with weapons because he is in the Kurdish region. Why are you shooting people? Because they are not the Kurds do you prefer? The other day he shot a doctor.

Yes, war is a difficult situation. There is really great destruction in Palestine. This is clear. But there is also the reality of the Turkish state. Erdoğan gets up and says these things in Antalya. He says war has morals, while being the single most immoral person. What kind of personality is Erdoğan? He blames every evil in himself on others. He says he has good traits which he doesn’t have. Such a liar. Where did he learn it? Who taught him? I guess someone told him: ‘we should always blame our evil deeds on others. That way no one will see the bad things we do.’ I don’t know if this is Erdoğan’s personality or not. He really blames all the evil he does on someone else. If anyone is the most immoral in this war, it is Erdoğan, the AKP-MHP government. He also uses chemical weapons. He is killing civilians, driving people out of their motherland, occupying their lands. Didn’t he make a demographic change? Where are the Kurds now? Isn’t this genocide? Then he gets up and gives lectures to the people in Gaza and Palestine.

From this point of view, when evaluating the war, it is necessary to see the role of the Turkish state in this war. We want this war to end as soon as possible. We want the oppression of the Palestinians to end. Hamas’ attacks are also unacceptable. They massacred civilians. That is a different situation, but there is no justification for such cruelty against civilians.