In part two of this interview, Mustafa Karasu, member of the KCK Executive Council, talked about the latest attacks on guerrillas and the Israel war against Gaza.

The first part of the interview can be read here

Karasu said: "The Turkish state does what Israel does, or Israel does what the Turkish state does. In this respect, the Turkish state has no humanitarian value. It supposedly wanted to be a mediator in this prisoner swap. Right now we have two MIT officers [officers of the Turkish intelligence service] in our hands. Erdogan doesn't ask one day. He doesn't say, 'I'll exchange10 prisoners,I'll exchange 15 prisoners, so that you give the two back to us.' They are two of their most important men. In this respect, we should not take seriously anything the Turkish state says in this war with Israel."

Lately, there have been many attacks by the Kurdish Freedom Guerrilla on the occupying Turkish army. Could you evaluate the situation of war in Kurdistan?

The new phase of the war in the South Kurdish Medya Defense Zones has been going on since October 21. The Turkish state has settled some places on the hills before. Right now the guerrilla and the Turkish army are fighting against each other in many places, especially on the border line. The war continues. The Turkish state cannot advance despite all its techniques, despite the support it receives from the KDP. The guerrilla cannot move as it wants because of the KDP supporting the Turkish army. The KDP puts obstacles to logistics and reinforcements. The guerrilla is fighting there under difficult conditions, fighting sacrificially, and this prevents the Turkish state from settling there and dominating it. Yes, it has settled in some places, but it is constantly being hit. They cannot sleep. And these are the ones that are up there, constantly controlling with UCAVs, using all kinds of techniques, constantly bombing with mortars and howitzers from the border, constantly bombing with airplanes and helicopters. The bombs dropped there are many times more than those dropped by Israel. But this is not seen. And it has been like this for years. I mean, not just for a month. They throw them into the mountains and burn the whole nature. Such a war is going on like this.

Against this, the war of our comrades is really sacrificial. We can say that for 50 years our movement has waged a sacrificial struggle. Here is what happened starting from the prison resistance. “You cannot darken our sun”, is the spirit created by thousands of our sacrifices. These have come together to this day. The sacrifice shown these days is walking on 50 years of sacrifice.

Despite the enemy’s technique, despite all kinds of opportunities, in those difficult conditions, our young comrades go against the enemy with enthusiasm as if they were going to a wedding. Can those guerrillas who go against the enemy, can that spirit be defeated? That spirit is now the spirit of the Kurdish people. It is the spirit of Kurdish youth, Kurdish women. This spirit will definitely defeat this genocidal colonialism. Let them say as much as they want, we will do this, we will do that, we will succeed. The time for that has passed. Yes, you can attack. You can also take casualties. The guerrilla can also suffer losses and pay a price. Our people can also pay a price. But this sacrificial spirit, the people’s reality created by it will definitely defeat genocidal colonialism. Comrade Abbas was saying that it is not possible to destroy or eliminate the PKK like that. The PKK is growing, the effect of Rêber Apo is growing, the Kurdish people are growing among the peoples of the world. There is such a reality. There is such a reality of struggle. In this respect, to think that you can defeat it with tanks and cannons is like Rome once thought that it would defeat Jesus, like Mecca once thought that it would defeat Mohammed when he came out, like the reactionary resistance in Europe against the Renaissance reform, like those who resisted strong thoughts, new ideas, new thoughts lost, Turkey will lose in the face of such a great struggle.

We really take morale from those comrades. Because they are the representatives of our 50 years of struggle, our spirit of sacrifice. They are representing it. They represent the sacrificial spirit of our people. I greet them here once again with love and respect.

The war between Israel and the Hamas has already entered its third month. What has been achieved so far out of your perspective? What has this war shown?

What did the Israeli-Palestinian war show? Problems cannot be solved with religionism and nationalism. Yes, the problem of the Jews is thousands of years old. They have been exiled several times, scattered all over the world, subjected to genocide. They have always been marginalized in many parts of the world. There was also their struggle to settle in Palestine as it is said in the Torah. The struggle of the Jews to come and settle in Palestine and the problems they had with the people there started at that time. So it starts, but it cannot go on forever. This issue needs to be solved with the right approach, with a correct understanding of sociality and social science. In fact, one of the most important characteristics of Rêber Apo is that he changed social science a lot. He says that social science in the age of capitalist modernity has created all these problems. It is this capitalist modernity that has developed so much religionism, nationalism and monism. Yes, there are problems in history, but it is this system that aggravates the problems. The First World War, the Second World War broke out. Is there any war in history as heavy as the Second World War, as heavy as the First World War? Is there? I mean, no. Heavy wars, big wars have always happened in the era of capitalist modernity. Understanding needs to change. Nationalism and religiosity need to change. The understanding of the democratic nation needs to develop. The approach to solving problems, that is, the understanding of a solution in a common homeland with the understanding of a democratic nation, not with war, this needs to develop. Otherwise, you can’t go anywhere with such blind fighting. Right now there is a blind fight.

Of course, there are Israel’s unjust practices here. There is the resistance of the Palestinian people against this. But based on Israel’s unjust practices, there should not be those who distort the struggle of the Palestinian people or openly kill civilians, such as religious groups, such as Hamas. Of course, this does not legitimize Israel’s current attack on Gaza. There is an attack against a people. In this respect, this issue really needs to be emphasized. As we have said before, Rêber Apo’s understanding of a democratic nation can be a solution. It can solve by recognizing each other’s existence. It is necessary to recognize the rights of the Palestinians where they exist. But this cannot be done with nationalism, religionism or statism. Instead, it is necessary to solve the problems with approaches such as democratic nation, democratic confederalism, brotherhood of peoples, common homeland. Of course, the following has emerged here. The widening of this war does not benefit anyone. The US is already worried about the spread of this war, as well as Iran and in fact, the Arab are worried. They don’t want the war to spread too much. The only one who wants this is the Turkish state. The Turkish state wants the war to spread so that it can benefit from it.

When they think of benefiting, they think of the Kurdish problem, genocide of the Kurds. That is what they think. Behind all the policies of the Turkish state right now is to genocide the Kurds. This is the first and foremost policy. This is its goal. That is why it wants the war to spread. Directly, but also through various means, the policy pursued by the US is directly opposed by Turkey.

The peoples, the democratic forces oppose Israel’s aggression against this war. Israel cannot continue like this. Even the US does not defend it, even its supporters do not defend it. The solution of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is of course very important, but there is also the Kurdish issue. The Middle East cannot achieve stability and peace without solving the Kurdish problem. But when the two fundamental problems, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the recognition of the Kurds’ right to freedom and existence, are solved, there will be real democracy and peace in the Middle East.

Turkey is doing what Israel is doing. More precisely, Israel is doing what the Turkish state is doing. It trusts the Turkish state. They were saying the other day. Israel will fill the tunnels with water. Now the Turkish state is doing the same. It is supposedly trying to collapse the tunnels by breaking them completely. It uses chemical gas. The Turkish army burns tires with some chemical gas and pumps it into the tunnels. And now Israel is doing that as well. Turkey is actually saying that Israel is doing it every day, committing massacres. What Israel is doing is genocide. We need to evaluate it like this. But the Turkish state is doing the same, it is doing it in excess. What did Hakan Fidan say before the Israel-Hamas war broke out? “We will destroy the entire energy infrastructure.” What is this? What does it mean to say that “I will destroy the infrastructure? I will destroy the possibility of life.” He said that. Now he is shouting that Israel is committing genocide, Israel is committing massacres. He is trying to cover up his own actions. But it is clear that it is not convincing. Yes, if another state, another country said it, it would be right, but not the Turkish state at all. It does everything it says and more. How many people live in Rojava [North-East Syria]? Close to 5 million. In New York, at the United Nations, Erdogan showed a map. They are trying to wipe out the whole of Rojava. You want to uproot it and take it away, but isn’t that genocide? You are doing this openly.

The Turkish state does what Israel does, or Israel does what the Turkish state does. In this respect, the Turkish state has no humanitarian value. It supposedly wanted to be a mediator in this prisoner swap. Right now we have two MIT officers [officers of the Turkish intelligence service] in our hands. Erdogan doesn’t ask one day. He doesn’t say, “I’ll exchange 10 prisoners, I’ll exchange 15 prisoners, so that you give the two back to us.” They are two of their most important men. In this respect, we should not take seriously anything the Turkish state says in this war with Israel. It is shouting like a thief in the night to prevent its own mask from falling off. Israel says everything. Yes, the peoples are saying it. But what Turkey says is to hide its own truth. Otherwise, Turkey does not think about Israel, Gaza, Hamas, this and that. The only thing Turkey is thinking about is the genocide of the Kurds. Not in favor of the Palestinians, not in favor of the Arabs. One day it will be more hostile to the Palestinians than Israel. It is such a state, it has such a reality. It has no principles.