Mustafa Karasu, member of the KCK Executive Council spoke about the continuous attacks by the Turkish state against Kurdistan, the betrayal by the KDP and the criticism of CHP MP Tanrıkulu's statements.

The first part of this interview can be read here

The fascist Turkish state continues its invasion attacks centered on Zap, Metîna and Avaşîn. The guerrillas managed to deal some heavy blows against the enemy. However, it seems that the ‘Kurdistan Democratic Party’ (KDP) will come to the rescue of the Turkish army. They have therefore increased their military reinforcement to the south Kurdish area of Bradost and the KDP is again carrying out attacks on guerrilla positions. What would you like to say about these developments?

Firstly, the resistance in Zap, Metîna and Avaşîn is a resistance against the genocidal colonizers. It has to be seen as part of the general struggle of the Kurdish people, who show a great sacrificial stance against genocidal power. This stance will continue by becoming even more effective. In this respect, it is not possible for the colonial enemy to gain any results. On the contrary, the sacrifice of resistance and militancy, increases the resistance power of the Kurdish people. We have evaluated the stance of the KDP many times now. As a Kurdish party, their actions have to be considered as betrayal. It is not possible to soften this, or to even find a justification for it. The attitude towards this has to be clear and unambiguous. There is not enough being done against the attitude of the KDP. This shows a weakness of the Kurdish people.

The Kurdish people will have to take a stance against betrayal to gain freedom. Without a clear stance against betrayal, without a clear stance of the Kurdish people, the struggle for freedom cannot be successful. Like I said, not taking an adequate stance against the KDP is a weakness of the Kurdish people. You can still find approaches that look like they try to normalize the KDP’s attitude. But without effect, as the broad majority of the Kurdish people see this betrayal. The ones that remain silent do so, because they themselves benefit from the KDP’s attitude. The problem is not a question of protecting the positions gained. As a result of so many years of struggle, the Kurdish people managed to create and protect their identity and existence in the world, in the Middle East. The KDP will not be able to crush and destroy this.

It is the decades of struggle that brought about the Kurdish gains. Without our struggle, the reality of South Kurdistan would not have emerged. I am not saying that our people in South Kurdistan never struggled. Of course they did, but that struggle led to such gains and positions as a result of the environment created by our struggle. This reality needs to be seen. Then the reality of the ‘Kurdistan Worker’s Party’ (PKK) and Rêber Apo needs to be understood and protected correctly. The gains and achievements of the Kurdish people can be preserved by protecting them.

In [the north Kurdish city of] Silopî, the Kurdish people took a clear stand against the KDP’s betrayal, the Turkish state attacks and is preventing them. Within the Turkish state it is known that they cannot succeed in Kurdistan without collaboration and the betrayal of the KDP. This is also the reason why the Turkish state still survives in Northern Kurdistan. It is because of the KDP. It is the KDP that has supported the Turkish state so much to enable their attacks. The Turkish state officials tend to say; ‘We’re not against the Kurds, look, we have relations with the KDP.’ This is how it deceives Kurdish society and the world. If it would liquidate the PKK, the KDP and other organizations would also not exist any longer. In this respect, what the KDP has done is obvious, and the right attitude must be taken against it. Otherwise, we would really end up in the situation of the Laz who, upon being executed, had said: ‘This should be a lesson for me”. When Rêber Apo was evaluating the reality of the Kurds in the early days, he said that Kurds do not know how they die even when they are dying. Now we know how the Kurds lose and how they will win. The reality of the KDP is as if they still want to make the Kurds suffer from this situation.

The Turkish army continues to abuse the bodies of fallen guerrilla fighters. The bodies are sent to their families in boxes. Again, attacks on guerrilla cemeteries continue. The attitude of the martyrs’ families against these attacks is very clear. What is the importance of this attitude of the martyrs’ families in the struggle?

First of all, I would like to respectfully greet the families of the martyrs. They reveal a very respectable and historical stance with their attitude. They reveal what the attitude of the Kurdish people should be. By saying, “We gave our son, but this is our attitude,” they are showing everyone what the approach towards the genocidal enemy should be. These practices have no other meaning as their wish to erase every trace of the Kurds. Not even their graves, not even their names, not even their history should remain if it is up to them.

This is the result of a genocidal mentality. In this respect, the attitude of the martyrs’ families is valuable. But the families of martyrs also have to be supported by the people, everyone has to support them. They give their children, but they do not give up their stance. They say that the greatest pain is being inflicted on them, and the way to relieve this pain is to struggle. It is not enough just to cry over the pain. Martyrs’ families show that it is not just crying in the face of pain, but taking a stance and fighting. They are already the value of our struggle. If the struggle of the Kurdish people has not been liquidated until today, then it is because of the stance of Kurdish mothers and martyrs’ families. These people will be the subject of novels, all kinds of music and art. This needs to be understood and acted upon by everyone.

While the inhumane attacks of the fascist Turkish army have been exposed by many documents, ‘Republican People’s Party’s’ (CHP) MP Sezgin Tanrıkulu’s mere mention of an ‘European Court of Human Rights’ (ECHR) ruling in the press caused an uproar in Turkey, so to speak. Tanrıkulu was close to be lynched by a fascist mob, but there was no ownership of his own party. There was no serious reaction from the opposition either. How should this situation be understood?

It is an approach related to the Kurdish genocide. They are hostile to everything that will shake, decipher and expose this genocide policy. Because they are committing the gravest crime in the world, the crime of genocide. There is no greater crime than this. When Şebnem Korur Fincancı, Merdan Yanardağ, Sezgin Tanrıkulu and other intellectuals expose this genocide crime of the Turkish state, they see them as the biggest enemy. The issue is not what Sezgin Tanrıkulu says. This is a basic policy. It is to threaten all democrats, intellectuals, everyone. They want to say that in Turkey there will be no intellectuals, no democrats, no socialists, no one will speak the truth. They are saying that only our genocide policy will be approved. What needs to be understood from these facts is that the Turkish state’s policy of genocide against the Kurds is unlike any other policy anywhere in the world.

There are national liberation movements in other parts of the world. They say that the problems there have been solved in this way, and that this is how they will be solved here, but it is not true, it is wrong to think like that. When we were in Oslo, a very valuable person, a democrat who fought in the Republic of Ireland, told us how they negotiated with the UK during the Oslo talks and how they came to a conclusion. They have had experiences, they have made great efforts, but the Kurdish reality is different from that. In fact, the reason why the intellectuals in the world and the intellectuals in Turkey cannot fully grasp the Kurdish reality is because they compare it to other events in the world. Everyone needs to get rid of this. There are also those among us who think like this. This is a very serious misconception.

The solution to the Kurdish question under the conditions of the Turkish state is through struggle. It is through a determined struggle against genocide. If the genocidal will is not broken through this struggle, the Kurdish problem cannot be solved. Approaches such as if we take a soft approach, if we behave like this, the Turkish state will come to faith, it will show a democratic approach, there will be progress for a solution, is self-deception. If you don’t struggle, you will be subjected to genocide.  The Kurdish problem cannot be solved without struggle. So no one should deceive themselves. The situation of the state is understood by no one better than Rêber Apo and he takes a clear stand. They do not let him meet with anybody because of his stance against the AKP-MHP government. In this respect, everyone should know very well why the Turkish state attacks Şebnem Korur Fincancı, Merdan Yanardağ, Sezgin Tanrıkulu and other intellectuals like thar. Some Kurdish intellectuals, some Kurdish politicians are really not aware of where they live. They have not grasped the reality of the Turkish state. We expect them not to loosen the struggle of the people, but to radicalize it even more and take a firm stance.

While the ‘Peoples’ Democratic Party’ (HDP) is holding its congress, the ‘Green Left Party’ is also preparing for its congress. While these congresses are taking place, the municipal elections are already being discussed. There is talk about how the Green Left Party will proceed in the municipal elections. How do you see these discussions?

The HDP and Green Left Party are doing an electoral accounting, making self-criticism and evaluations. These are good steps, but the opposition needs to see some realities. For example, there was an earthquake, hundreds of thousands of people died, 13-15 million people were affected. It was forgotten as if it had never happened, as if the AKP-MHP government was not responsible. Even this shows how ineffective the opposition is. Of course, socialists and Kurdish democracy forces should also play a more effective opposition role. The policies of the third way mean this. The third way means organizing among the people and waging the struggle decisively. The third way means an approach to create a more correct opposition against this government, that cannot find a solution to Turkey’s problems. It is an understanding of organization, an understanding of struggle. It means what kind of a Turkey, what kind of a Kurdistan, what kind of a Middle East we envision. It is necessary to concentrate on this, on the question of how much the third way has been put into practice.

Some discussions are discussions of diverting the third way. Saying that it was done a certain way in the last elections or not is a separate situation, it has nothing to do with whether it is suitable for the third way or not. Every party, every politician uses tactics when necessary, struggles, utilizes the contradictions within the system while struggling. These have nothing to do with the concept of the third way. In this respect, the third way has indeed been weakened and distracted from its real meaning by squeezing it into the past elections. The third way is the way of struggle, the way to fight more effectively, to wage a bigger war for freedom, to resist more, to organize more, to fight together with the people. It is the way to get rid of the influence of capitalist modernity. It is the way to get rid of the middle class and petite bourgeois influence, and conformism. What are you going to do when the other side is pursuing a policy of genocide? The third way is the way of struggle against genocide.

The Kurdish people are a conscious people, and the Kurdish movement has great experience. It is not a political movement that can be influenced from here and there. Because it is a movement that emerged out of the Serhildans [popular uprisings]. The Serhildans of 1989 and the early 90’s created such a democratic political movement. It has such a foundation. There was a struggle, an environment was created, a democratic and social revolution took place and a political space emerged. And this space was created by the guerrilla movement. The people stood up, the youths and women stood up, as a result of the guerrilla struggle. Any political power that is not based on its history weakens and melts away. In this respect, I believe that the Kurdish political movement and the Kurdish people will draw conclusions from the shortcomings and enter into a stronger struggle.